I think that eventually, this will become a debate, even though I’m not framing it that way.
I think that the ultimate way for anti-union people to legislate unions out of existence has a couple flavors.
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Flavor one**: Push healthcare on the government. That makes it government’s problem, government’s expense, and makes a growing headache of Business’s go away.
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Flavor two**: Increase the minimum wage substantially. This makes it so the workers will be much happier. This money comes from the money saved from pushing healthcare onto the government.
Doing these two things, and perhaps finding a way to limit overtime/salary many people (are there any special laws that apply when becoming a salaried employee as opposed to being hourly?)and increasing the quality of working conditions would siphon the support of unions. In the long run, if Business did these things, they’d find a way to rid themselves of unions and essentially run unchecked.
With all this being said, I’m pro-union. I’m also for universal healthcare. It’s also common knowledge that Business wants the government to shoulder the healthcare burden because it’s mega-ass expensive. I’m also not for starting/joining a conspiracy theory.
What about job security? At the last place I worked (union - manufacturing), the biggest benefit I saw to being a union member was job security – keeping your job (as in not being fired without good reason) and keeping your particular job.
It was a huge issue for everyone, and it was more important to high seniority employees than wages.
If you were union and had some seniority, you could be sure that (barring a layoff or restructuring) the job you trained for would be the job you did. If you liked change and learning new skills, there were opportunities to move. If you preferred doing the same task for 20 years, you could do that too.
Not so with non-union employees. It wasn’t unusual for an engineer to end up on the shop floor as a facilitator, or a quality control person or an accountant to be moved to shipping. If they didn’t like it, they could leave. It also wasn’t unusual for non-union employees to be fired without cause. No contract, no protection.
That’s news to me. Exactly how has Big Business come out in favor of socialized medicine? Usually they’re the ones campaigning AGAINST any form of it, especially insurance companies. There was an interesting column in the New Yorker some time ago about how our current system of employer-paid healthcare came into being. As I recall, the author pointed out it would be in business’ best interest to support universal health care, but empowering the government to do so clashed with the minimalist-government ideals of many in the business community. Hence, no action.
Both ideas in the OP are great ideas. They also don’t exist. Why? Because somebody (actually, a lot of people) somewhere makes more money the way things are.
Both ideas are also somewhat utopian, but especially Flavor Two. There’s no guarantee raising the minimum wage would make workers happy in the long run. Give a man a dollar and he’ll want two. Not saying raising the minimum isn’t a great idea, just that it won’t accomplish what you claim it will.
I should add that it’s also unrealistic to expect businesses to use money saved on healthcare to pay their workers more. It’s obvious from recent history that when businesses make more money it only goes to one place: into the pockets of the owners and chareholders. If not, why would we even need a minimum wage in the first place?
Human nature hasn’t really changed. If companies could legally work people to death and pay them almost nothing as they did in the 19th century, they still would. There’s a reason jobs get shipped to Asia: Human life is cheaper there.
Oh, I don’t dispute that Business would pocket any savings. I’d bet on it. I’m just saying that if Business acted in unison and with a unified goal, it could be done.
Also, I read that New Yorker article as well. I don’t even disagree with it. I’m just posting something that I thought of and though tit might spark up some conversation.
I don’t see how raising the minimum wage would change anything. How many heads of households are now making between the minimum wage and whatever you could realistically raise it to?
I was under the impression that big business had succeeded in pretty much doing in unions – their influence now is as nothing compared with what it used to be. The minimum wage is fast becoming a bogus issue in the US – it is so ridiculously low that in many places, it is lower than the wage paid to unskilled new hires. And as for health care, big business is succeeding there, too. My wife and I both are working. Neither one of us has been offered health care as a benefit. We don’t have it. We can’t afford the price of health care on our own, so we are both continuing to look for jobs which offer health care.
We can only take consolation that if anyone in our family gets really sick, we’ll have to go to the emergency room and register as indigent, costing everyone a hell of a lot more than it would have if we’d had the ability to get regular health care. If I’m laying on a hospital bed at $1500 a day or whatever the outrageous cost is, with all sorts of multi-thousand dollar procedures done on me, I shall take great pleasure in the thought that that money is coming out of the taxes of all the fuckers who think guaranteed health care is a bogus idea. I’ll malinger there, just to make it cost more. You can BANK on it.
:::Feeling a bit faint right now … must dial 911:::
There are huge changes when you move from an hourly position to a salaried position. The concept of overtime usually disappears for one and you might have to work a 100 hour week with no extra pay as a salaried person. OTOH, salaried employees usually don’t have someone counting every second of their work and it may be Ok to kick off early some afternoons to go see a baseball game or a school play. The concept is known as “exempt” versus "nonexempt and has many legal ramifications.
I think that unions are on the way out anyway and there isn’t much to fear (I do the dance because I hate unions more than any other person possibly could). There aren’t many new industries that are becoming unionized and public support for them throughout most of the country is low. High-profile strikes especially in things like transportation show them for what they are. GM and several airlines are being crippled by their legacy. The Teamsters has declared that they want to unionize some professional industries like my very own IT and I haven’t heard even a single lonely clap for that.
In short, I think that very few people look at the problems in their job and then somberly reflect that it would be better if the unions would just come in and save the day. Unions are just a parasite that are trying to hold on as long as they can and it isn’t working as well as they hoped.
It’s really baffling. Our insurance premiums went up (I think) 8-9% this year, and that actually wasn’t that bad compared with some years. My company has $250 deductible, and the insurance company claims they won’t even offer those to businesses that aren’t grandfathered in.
I work for a little company, and healthcare costs are huge.
Big businesses have already pretty much crushed union power in this vountry and convinced the public that that’s a good thing. So why would they want a higher minimum wage or universal health care? They’re already not paying for these and getting no fallout.
Are you kidding me? The auto manufacturers have moved a lot of their operations to… no, not China or Mexico, but to CANADA! Why? Because they save money on health care by letting the Canadian government handle that.
Sure, private insurance companies will continue to fight against socialized medicine, but Ford and GM (and the big airlines, et al.) would LOVE for the government to take over health care.
dance because I hate unions more than any other person possibly could). There aren’t many new industries that are becoming unionized and public support for them throughout most of the country is low. High-profile strikes especially in things like transportation show them for what they are. GM and several airlines are being crippled by their legacy. The Teamsters has declared that they want to unionize some professional industries like my very own IT and I haven’t heard even a single lonely clap for that.