I wonder at the rather large percentage of Male Black voters who will not vote for Harris. They, like Female Black voters came out in droves for Obama.
So while Harris is able to re-claim a lot of the female electorate, black male voters are either staying home or actually voting for Trump.
Could this block (apparently about 25% of Black male voters) be the difference in the margins thus holding the EC for the Republicans?
Anecdotally what is this? Black male misogyny? Fear that Black females are becoming more educated and possibly more wealthy? Anger that they are left behind like poor whites who lean Trump?
This is true and helps explain while Trump wasn’t able to push through agendas he had during his presidency. Even now I’m sure some Republicans are pissed off about the border bill. Here’s what gets me about Trump supporters: They don’t mind being lied to. JD Vance admitted the Haitian pet eating story was a lie. Marjorie Taylor Green admitted she lied about a supposed ABC whistleblower who said the presidential debate was rigged had died in an auto accident. Trump’s lies are easily verifiable. He lies about what he lied about. But most of his supporters seem fine with that.
So, you’re saying that 25% of all Black men hate Black women so much that they would rather vote for a white man who would reestablish slavery if he could get away with it? Forgive me if I don’t accept that.
They hate being lied to. They truly believe that illegal^ Haitians immigrants are killing and eating people’s pets. Vance’s comments were not lies, merely frustrated at how hard it is to bring such issues up. As a fallback, it is absolutely true that Ohio citizens have called Vance’s office with evidence. While those callers may be lying, Vance isn’t. It’s the MSM that is doing the lying. You can’t believe anything they say.
^ Yes, the vast majority of Haitians in Springfield are legal residents, but the Trump supporters believe they are illegal. Even if they have documents, they’re illegal because the Democrats broke the law bringing them here.
People don’t like being wrong. People don’t like having to change their world view. They only need the slightest bit of “proof” to convince them. There is a widespread bodycam video of a black woman talking about eating a cat. I think it’s even from Ohio. By her lack of accent it’s obvious she’s not a Haitian immigrant but that’s enough to convince many there is enough truth in the story for them. She’s also obviously crazy. There is also a picture going around of a black man butchering some type of animal in a parking lot. By the plants and foreign license plates it was obviously not in America but “they” probably photoshopped that. Some will never be swayed but just enough might.
I think there are some deeper psychological issues at play here. It started with the Birther movement. Do I think most Republicans had any doubt where Obama was born? No. But they could use that issue to impugne his character so they went with it. I think most Republicans are perfectly aware that Trump lies. Frequently. These same Republians go through a lot of mental gymnastics to justify their support for Trump or to accept the lie. You’re right, there are certainly those who swallow the lies hook, line, and sinker. For most of MAGA I think something else is going on there.
I’ll bet most MAGAs didn’t know about it until Vance and then Trump platformed it on the national stage. And now they want to believe it, because it plays well into their conception of other races and because they don’t want their leaders to be wrong.
We don’t know that any of those callers exist, let alone that they are Ohio residents.
But we do know that Vance knows the story isn’t true because of his responses to Caitlin, that it was important that he “make up a story” to draw attention to the strains on the Springfield community.
Plus there’s the whole thing of a grown adult having some semblance of reality. The idea that something this absurd is happening, and yet zero police reports have been filed, but people are calling their senator, should immediately ping the BS detector.
What has the MSM got factually incorrect here?
And they’re wrong. Wishing that the law were different is not the same thing as someone being illegal, or breaking the law.
For years republicans have claimed that they have no issue with immigration per se, only on people arriving illegally. Trump has said as much multiple times. Turns out it was BS. If you’re the wrong skin color, people still hate you and spread hateful myths about you.
That goes both ways. The internet was full of liberals who would not stop repeating that barely funny the first time joke about Vance as if it wasn’t anything but a blatant lie. There’s also been the “false flag” claims about the shots at Trump’s rally in Pennsylvania, misrepresentation of things he’s actually said in the past (disinfectant regarding covid, for example), things that keep getting brought up as “still probably true” like the “pee tape” and so on.
I’m not going to defend Trump. He lies all the time about things both big and small and quite frankly the man should have already been in jail by now just from the classified documents case alone. But I find it very hard to care about people complaining about Trump’s lies when they’re perfectly happy to lie themselves. I suspect a number of potential voters look at such things and say “See, they’re all liars. Candidates and supporters both.” Makes it real easy to stay home.
No-They really don’t mind that they are being lied to, because the lying seems to work just fine and American are taught, almost from birth, that winners are better than losers, no matter what methods they use to win with. Vance was on CBS the other night and lied almost constantly, loudly and continuality, talked right over the host who tried to say what really happen (and failed miserably), and he show viewers that he had what it takes to steamroll the other side. The fact that what he had was a constant stream of bullshit and a total lack of manners really didn’t matter to far too many viewers-what happened in reality is that he got to give a free speech on national television.
As I understand it, her career as a prosecutor makes a lot of Black males uncomfortable. They incorrectly see her as a part of the mass incarceration system, targeting Black men to make her reputation.
Luke Campbell from 2 Live Crew wrote harsh things about her, including personal attacks based on her dating San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown and then marrying a white man, Doug Emhoff.
A lengthy series of inroads got her the chance to win him over with resurrect to her history of reentry programs to help lie level drug offenders, her stance on gun ownership and personal ownership of a gun. She also takes over her sins to assist Blacks to get better access to home ownership.
He came around and admitted he was wrong, and spoke at the convention.
The other challenge she faces is the reputation that Black candidates expect Black support without making an effort to help them. So she needs to show the Black community her programs and agendas for them.
The third category is young Black males males supporting Trump.
This article the author says it’s about the economy. Obama/Biden/Harris policies hurt his ability to earn a living in oil and gas, but Trump’s policies were good to him. He says the economy is why Black men support Trump. Remember when Trump was bragging about Black unemployment being the lies ever?
I really can’t argue with you…mainly because arguing with people that are still “both-siding” at this late stage in the game, people still saying that the mouse and the moose are pretty much the same because they are both mammals, is just a waste of time.
How often do they get behind Black females in positions of real power, let alone any females? Black male support for Shirley Chisholm was almost nonexistent if I recall correctly.
The fact that they support bigotry & hate makes them evil. The fact that they support government by threats makes them evil. The fact that they support a known criminal makes them either foolish or evil.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/09/09/harris-trump-biden-black-americans/ Among Black registered voters, 82 percent say they will “definitely” or “probably” vote for Harris this November,..Harris’s support is even stronger among other segments of the Black electorate, including 80 percent support among Black men overall and 84 percent among Black women, 86 percent among Black voters ages 40 and older; 86 percent among those with at least a bachelor’s degree; and 81 percent among those with less formal education.
Note that altho 80% of black men said they will vote for Harris, the remaining 20% didnt say they’d vote for trump.
Yes, Vance was lying. And yes, in general you can trust the MSM. While they are slightly biased, and they want to show the news they think people want to see- mostly bad news- they are not lying to us.
Right. But I will bet some are real people- who are either lying or repeating a story they heard from their cousin’s girlfriend’s hairdresser.
But see, the difference is- us Dems tell it as a clear joke, not as a fact.
This, in my opinion, fundamentally misunderstands the relationship between Trump and his cultist followers, and then the further relationship that exists between them collectively and the rest of the world.
Go back and remind yourself of the pigeon drop analogy.
Got it?
Okay. Now. Here’s the thing.
Trump is not lying to his followers.
He is saying:
Participate in this lie with me.
Help me. You are my ally as we fight myour enemies. They are dishonest and crooked. They have no respect for the truth. We can fight fire with fire. We should not be constrained by the truth either. It’s irrelevant. It doesn’t matter. What matters is that we fight and we win.
We are in this together.
Trump’s followers don’t care about the lies because they understand they aren’t the ones being lied to. They think they are soldiers in a bigger war. And Trump is giving them ammunition.
Edit to add: Sure, maybe there are a few true believers. But that’s not how this con works.
As Czarcasm put it, it’s about selling them that they’ll be “winners”, whatever it takes. And they’re buying the line, because else they’ll see themselves as losers.
No, they don’t; they don’t care at all. They don’t care about facts or logic or internal consistency. What matters to them is faith, loyalty, and cruelty.
Faith: Belief in what they are told or want to believe in direct contradiction of what they can see to be true is a virtue to them; the more obviously false the belief, the more of a virtue it is to deny reality and believe it anyway.
Loyalty: Following and praising the Leader is also a virtue, doing so is more of a virtue the worse the leader is because that shows greater devotion.
Cruelty: The essence, the core and purpose of the Right for as long as the concept has existed. Trump offers to them, and they want it. More than life itself, they want it.