Yeah, somehow only one channel has The Truth, while the other couple of dozen are all biased liberal tools.
They are- every time an abortion ban gets on the ballot it is solidly voted down. I even mentioned that.
Honest question, how do you feel about the Germans and Italians who voted in fascists in the 20s and 30s?
A friend of mine (MAGA supporter) recently posted on Facebook saying something about how sad it was for people to end friendships over politics. It occurred to me this particular point of view was possible because he would personally be fine no matter which way the political winds blew. To him its almost like rooting for Texas when your best pal is rooting for Oklahoma State. Why would you break up a friendship over that?
I and a few others replied asking him how he could claim to be friends with someone while actively supporting a candidate whose policies would hurt them? It’s true, we’re going to have to have some sort of reconciliation with Trump supporters because there’s just too damn many of them to ignore. But they understand what they’re doing. If they don’t, they’re fools, and they deserve to be castigated for their foolishness.
You don’t prosecute thousands of women for witchcraft, send Jews to concentration camps, or lynch Blacks in American without the tacit approval or indifference of the population. Germans and Italians knew what they were doing when they supported facism they just didn’t realize it would harm them in the end.
Most of them didnt realize what was gonna happen.
Exactly. For Trump voters, the cruelty and the suffering are the point, they just don’t realize it will come for them too.
Yes, that’s what apologists always say.
Honest answer, I don’t know enough about the information the voters had, the economic/social situation they faced, or the fascists’ proposals and proven records.
I would suspect at least SOME portion of them thought “the economy is horrible, and these guys will at least do something about it.” I’m ignorant about the extent to which the facists said, “and to correct things, we’ll kill all the Jews and overrun Europe,” or the extent to which voters said, “We want to kill all of the Jews and overrun Europe.”
Another honest answer - whenever anyone brings up Hitler, I question how “honest” their question is.
The Chump supporters I know are not diehard MAGAs desiring fascism, and do not readily bring up their beliefs. If they were/did, I would reduce/end my association with them.
Godwin has given his blessing to comparing Trump to Hitler (link below).
I ask the question because I think it is fair; when you talk about Trumpists, you are talking about fascists who tried to overthrow the government. If you have friends and family who support him, they are fascists. I find the willful ignorance of people in this thread trying to pretend they aren’t fascists unnerving.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/19/godwins-law-trump-hitler-00132427
I was, when Trump first entered politics, unsure whether a comparison to HItler was over the top. Then Helga (one of my mom’s friends and a wonderful human being) said she thought Trump’s rise to power was EXACTLY like Adolf Hitler. Helga was a concentration camp survivor. She toured schools giving presentations on the Holocaust. If anyone was entitled to compare Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler, it was Helga.
Mussolini marched on Rome on October 31, 1922. Voters had supported the Fascist Party but it’s not clear (to me) that they knew they were were signing onto this; supporters after the takeover were of course more culpable. Fascism at that point was by no means a good thing, but Mussolini wasn’t a genocidal maniac. Nor was he an anti-Semite at this point. It’s not clear what his reputation–and fate–would have been had Hitler never come to power. Mussolini was also a bit of a late adopter of Hitler and even opposed the Anschluss of Austria in 1938. The Tripartite Pact was not signed until September 27, 1940.
I think the voters who supported Nazism in 1933 when Hitler came to power were much more culpable. The Beer Hall Putsch had taken place in November 1923, so they knew Hitler had already tried to over throw democracy. In prison, he had of course written Mein Kampf, which outlined his nefarious plans in some detail. They knew he was a virulent anti-Semite. They knew there were some 3 million SA members (brownshirts) loyal to him brawling in the streets. So yeah, the people supporting this evil man were themselves stupid or evil to do so. Keep in mind, however, that they did not imagine anything like the Holocaust happening, so they can’t be accused of wanting that.
People who supported Trump in 2016 were making a very bad, infuriating choice, but Trump had not yet shown what he would do as president. I would not call them stupid or evil yet. January 6 was the turning point. That was analogous to the Beer Hall Putsch, and they had no excuse after that. Since then, Trump’s rhetoric has only grown more evil and insane. Plus, Trump supporters have the example of Hitler and know the risk they would be taking with a second Trump term. They are more culpable than the 1933 Nazi supporters, in my view.
It may have been made clear in polls. I don’t recall many referendums. But I’m telling you what Trump supporters think. You can say all you want what you think, or what you claim they do. but the fact is this is what they think. They aren’t lying any more than most people do. This is what they believe.
This thread is veering into “I don’t understand how Nixon won, nobody I know voted for him!” territory. The election is a tossup and most people here are talking like Harris has it in the bag.
Ohio for one.
Then why do they vote otherwise in the referendum and in polls?
If you mean Ohio Issue 1 from last November, the wikipedia article for it provides voter demographics that indicate 82% of Republicans voted against it. That seems like very strong evidence that Republicans don’t like abortion, as RickJay said.
I can forgive people who voted Trump in 2016. While I felt Trump was a bad enough choice that I voted Democratic for the first time in a presidential election, I won’t claim I had a complete understanding of just how bad he was going to be as president. I’m a generous man, so I’ll even let 2020 slide. But after January 6th and all we’ve learned since then, no. Trump supporters no longer get a pass. Either they’re evil or they’re fools. Evil because they actually support Trump or fools because they can’t see what he is.
I don’t know any Trump fanboys, but I do know a lot of Republicans who will vote for a pile of rotten potatoes over any Democrat. What seems to drive them is a deep repulsion to the idea that anyone could get something for nothing.
Their family was poor and they had to sell papers as a kid, so the idea that some other guy could get a free lunch or not have to work is repulsive (never mind that maybe a kid of a different race or gender would not get the same chances they did, or even that their son is gay)
They “know a girl” who bragged about getting pregnant and living off tax money and find her repulsive (never mind that this particular lady’s kids don’t talk to her anymore and she relies on her husband and neighbors for material support)
They cannot stand the idea of someone else getting something for free, or from “their tax dollars.”
And part of me gets this: I’ve worked since I was 15 and parented solo and nursed my babies in bathrooms at conferences, and there is a twinge when I see the nice mamava nursing rooms now, or my friends’ partners stepping up, or meet adults who didn’t have a job before they graduated from college.
But I also recognize how deeply lucky and privileged I am in so many ways, and actively work to give other people advantages.
I’m not sure die-hard Republicans see their advantages. I know they see their grievances, and are comforted by people in power whining in proxy.
It’s like an extreme version of the fundamental attribution bias, and it’s hard to counter.
As an Aussie watching from afar, the last few weeks have given me much hope for the US: prior to that, I was truly despondent, fearing that another four years of Trump and his shenanigans would seriously imperil the future, not just for the US, but by emboldening other western democracies (including my own) to adopt that same bullshit and crassness.
We don’t do ‘conventions’ here, so it has been fascinating to watch snippets of the great (and the not so great) performances by the GOP and the Democrats. And then to see Trump visibly crumbling in front of our eyes, as even he cannot fail to see the future is not looking so good for him.
In fact, I would not be at all surprised if a health issue (imagined or real) gets him pulling out of the race, as the damage to his ego would be literally unbearable.
And I shall sit back and laugh my head off, and thank all the decent people in America for being, well, decent people.
We should be so lucky, but no, I think this is unlikely, and while I hope Harris prevails I have a feeling it’ll be closer than we’d be comfortable with.
By exit poll. People lie. And there aint that many registered Republicans… or Democrats for that matter.
https://www.ohiosos.gov/media-center/press-releases/2021/2021-10-01-a/
umber of Registered Voters in Ohio: 7,982,501
Number of Registered Democrats: 947,027
umber of Registered Republicans: 836,080
umber of Registered Libertarians: 2,847
umber of Unaffiliated Registered Voters: 6,196,547
There were about 1.7 Million NOs, and 2,2 Million Yes.
There were only 800K or so registered Republicans.
Agree. I am assuming that Trump will take office in January 2025 and I will continue to make this assumption unless and until it is Harris taking the oath.