How can you assassinate a tree?

Factual Questions
1

So there’s a tree growing in my back yard and I really want to get rid of it: Its seeds are invading my lawn and normal weedkiller doesn’t kill them. I was hoping not just to cut it down and try and dissolve or dig up the roots, but actively kill it.

I had thought that cutting away the bark in a circle would prevent the leaves from receiving nutrients, but thus far it hasn’t seemed to make a difference. My sister-in-law said that copper nails would do the trick, but I’m not sure. I’ve thought about RoundUp, but haven’t tried it yet.

(This tree is more weed than tree. A plumber I talked to about its roots growing into my sewer line said that it’s actually illegal now to sell or buy them in California.)

2

Lots of good suggestions in this recent thread:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=417662&highlight=tree

3

Cut it off at the stump then pour bleach on the stump.
My mum had me do this to a tree she didn’t want in her garden.
She seemed happy with the results.

4

[QUOTE=wendigo1974]
Cut it off at the stump then pour bleach on the stump.
My mum had me do this to a tree she didn’t want in her garden.
She seemed happy with the results.
[/QUOTE]

Aren’t there waste disposal laws for Bleach? I’d be surprised if this was legal anywhere near the coast in California.

5

[QUOTE=BrightNShiny]
Aren’t there waste disposal laws for Bleach? I’d be surprised if this was legal anywhere near the coast in California.
[/QUOTE]

How is using Bleach on your property violating disposal laws.
Your not dumping 800 bottles in the sea, your using it on your property to kill flora.

6

[QUOTE=wendigo1974]
How is using Bleach on your property violating disposal laws.
[/QUOTE]

I’m asking whether it does or not.

And this proves its not illegal to dump bleach exactly how?

[QUOTE=Big Bear Lake Municipal Code]

§ 14.04.180 Prohibited discharges.

In addition to the general prohibitions in Article II of this chapter, **it is prohibited to discharge any of the following to any **street, gutter, alley, sidewalk, storm drain inlet, catch basin, conduit or other drainage structure, business place, or upon any public or private lot of land in the city, so that the same may be and/or may become a pollutant:

A. Animal waste, soil, leaves, plant and tree cuttings, grass clippings, weeds, dead trees, fertilizer, soil amendments or mulch, and pesticides;

B. Concrete or cement waste, brick and tile work wastes, plaster and drywall tool cleanup water, waste paint or painting cleanup water, asphalt or asphalt cleanup solvents or slurry from saw cutting concrete or asphalt and other construction waste;

C. Domestic sewage including wastewater from sinks, washing machines, dishwashers, toilets, campers, motor homes or trailers;

D. Chemicals, degreasers, bleach, steam cleaning or pressure washing wastewater;
[/QUOTE]

7

[QUOTE=BrightNShiny]
I’m asking whether it does or not.

And this proves its not illegal to dump bleach exactly how?
[/QUOTE]

Because that is not what implies. Otherwise you could get fined for a dog pooping on your lawn, a leaf falling, or working in your own flower bed. According to that, you couldn’t do anything on your property that moves around common materials. Now lets hear why you think that bleach on a stump is so bad other than the fact that it sounds non-crunchy. You really need to think through individual situations rather than citing vaguely similar laws.

8

[QUOTE=Shagnasty]
Because that is not what implies.
[/QUOTE]

It clearly states that disposing of bleach on private property in such a way as for it to become a pollutant is illegal. That means that there is some level of bleach that you cannot dump on your property without violating this law. You obviously don’t know how to read a statute.

What that level is, we don’t know, because you (with your obviously complete lack of knowledge on the topic) have failed to post a cite to anything which indicates what an acceptable level is.

I’m sorry. Which law school did you go to? Remind me not to recommend it to anyone.

It’s obvious you’ve never even done a cursory study of enivronmental or hazardous waste laws and regulations. You’re the one who needs to think through lecturing people on topics that you know nothing about. :rolleyes:

Now, if anyone who has actually studied the issue would care to clarify the laws governing bleach disposal, that would be helpful.

9

[QUOTE=BrightNShiny]

Now, if anyone who has actually studied the issue would care to clarify the laws governing bleach disposal, that would be helpful.
[/QUOTE]

Maybe you as Mr/Mrs High and Mighty, would like to explain why killing a tree stump with bleach is also classified as bleach disposal?

10

[QUOTE=wendigo1974]
Maybe you as Mr/Mrs High and Mighty, would like to explain why killing a tree stump with bleach is also classified as bleach disposal?
[/QUOTE]
The law did not say “disposal”, it says “discharge”. That means if you pour it out on the ground around the tree, you have discharged it. Now, if you injected it directly into the tree, you might avoid prosecution; maybe.

11

[QUOTE=wendigo1974]
Maybe you as Mr/Mrs High and Mighty, would like to explain why killing a tree stump with bleach is also classified as bleach disposal?
[/QUOTE]

There is some amount of bleach and some manner of bleach which you are not allowed to discharge in Big Bear. Pouring bleach on a stump is discharing an amount of bleach is a specific manner. Is it an amount necessary to violate Big Bear’s ordinance? I don’t know. Is it in a manner such as to violate Big Bear’s ordinance? I don’t know.

I didn’t claim that it was definitely illegal to do what you recommend. I asked whether it was illegal or not, I stated that I’d be surprised if it was legal, and I posted a cite to a law which regulates the discharge of bleach onto private property. That’s all I did. And for that I get a snotty response from Shagnasty and get called High and Mighty by you. :rolleyes: Ok, my last post at Shagnasty was snotty in return, but it’s not like I wasn’t provoked.

Look, the only person qualified to definitively settle this is someone who’s studied environmental laws and regulations. I am merely pointing out that it’s a possible issue.

On a more general note, I suggest that anyone contemplating this action contact their city/county to determine whether it’s allowed.

On preview, I see that I have been using the terms “disposal” and “discharge” interchangeably. If that is the source of confusion, then please substitute the word disposal with the word discharge in all my posts.

12

[QUOTE=BrightNShiny]
It clearly states that disposing of bleach on private property in such a way as for it to become a pollutant is illegal. That means that there is some level of bleach that you cannot dump on your property without violating this law. You obviously don’t know how to read a statute.

What that level is, we don’t know, because you (with your obviously complete lack of knowledge on the topic) have failed to post a cite to anything which indicates what an acceptable level is.

I’m sorry. Which law school did you go to? Remind me not to recommend it to anyone.

It’s obvious you’ve never even done a cursory study of enivronmental or hazardous waste laws and regulations. You’re the one who needs to think through lecturing people on topics that you know nothing about. :rolleyes:

Now, if anyone who has actually studied the issue would care to clarify the laws governing bleach disposal, that would be helpful.
[/QUOTE]

I didn’t go to law school. I am much too smart for that:

Step back from the legalize and imagine what your cite could mean:

“D. Chemicals, degreasers, bleach, steam cleaning or pressure washing wastewater;”

That seems to prohibit outdoor bug killers, car washing, all water dumping, bug spray, and everything else. “Chemical” is a little vague isn’t it? You can cite something like that but it doesn’t mean anything. Using bleach outside isn’t disposing of it just like using any “chemical” (who writes this crap?) isn’t in normal quantities.

13

[QUOTE=Shagnasty]
I didn’t go to law school. I am much too smart for that:

Step back from the legalize and imagine what your cite could mean:

“D. Chemicals, degreasers, bleach, steam cleaning or pressure washing wastewater;”

That seems to prohibit outdoor bug killers, car washing, all water dumping, bug spray, and everything else. “Chemical” is a little vague isn’t it?
[/QUOTE]

Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. Maybe it has a well-defined meaning within the context of this law. That’s why one generally looks to people who have actually studied the subject for a definitive answer. But of course, you, who have never studied the subject in any fashion, can make authoritative statements about what the law actually means.

I see. Chemical is vague, but “normal quantities” has a clearly defined meaning that includes dumping bleach on a stump?

Usually, environmental laws define acceptable levels in specific quantities that are based on the properties of the individual substance. This law clearly states on its face that there is some amount of bleach you are not allowed to discharge on private property. Period. The amount of bleach is going to be different than the amount of animal poop or concrete or anything else. That’s the way environmental laws generally work. Unless you can show that a bottle of bleach is less than the acceptable limit of bleach allowed, then you haven’t proven that it’s not illegal to dump bleach on a stump.

14

[QUOTE=BrightNShiny]
Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. Maybe it has a well-defined meaning within the context of this law. That’s why one generally looks to people who have actually studied the subject for a definitive answer. But of course, you, who have never studied the subject in any fashion, can make authoritative statements about what the law actually means.

I see. Chemical is vague, but “normal quantities” has a clearly defined meaning that includes dumping bleach on a stump?

Usually, environmental laws define acceptable levels in specific quantities that are based on the properties of the individual substance. This law clearly states on its face that there is some amount of bleach you are not allowed to discharge on private property. Period. The amount of bleach is going to be different than the amount of animal poop or concrete or anything else. That’s the way environmental laws generally work. Unless you can show that a bottle of bleach is less than the acceptable limit of bleach allowed, then you haven’t proven that it’s not illegal to dump bleach on a stump.
[/QUOTE]

How do you propose that someone go through life without a lawyer on Siamese twin duty if all of the everyday, mundane topics require someone with highly specialized knowledge to understand? I am about to take a shower using various chemicals that will make its way into my personal septic system and then into the ground. I think most of them are Ok (bleach from the washer goes there after all :eek: ) but how do I KNOW that without specialized training?

15

[QUOTE=Shagnasty]
How do you propose that someone go through life without a lawyer on Siamese twin duty if all of the everyday, mundane topics require someone with highly specialized knowledge to understand? I am about to take a shower using various chemicals that will make its way into my personal septic system and then into the ground. I think most of them are Ok (bleach from the washer goes there after all :eek: ) but how do I KNOW that without specialized training?
[/QUOTE]

Hmmm… let’s see. I already gave a suggestion in this thread about how to determine if this was legal in your city. It’s called calling up the city and asking them.

But, I’ll give you a general piece of advice. If you are planning to dump any chemical onto your property, it’s a good idea to check with the city to see if that’s legal. If it’s a chemical you normally wouldn’t rub into your eyes or sprinkle on your food, it’s an even better idea to check with the city.

As for what goes into your septic tank, I have no idea if it’s legal. But if you purchased your laundry detergent from some guy selling it out of his trunk, you might want to check with the city again. If you didn’t, and you’re still worried, you could always… hmm, I wonder what you could do.

And finally, it’s not possible for everyone to be aware of every law. Based on my own expertise, I suggested that this might be an issue and that more expertise is needed. Then you, without any expertise whatsoever, decided to argue with me. Even though I posted a cite, and even though you have nothing to back you up. If you want general suggestions on how to go through life, then I suggest that you not argue about things you have no knowledge about. For example, you might not want to lecture a person on how to interpret a statute unless you actually can make a legal argument about its interpretation.

16

Look guys, forget the bleach and the ins and outs of the law.

There’s some perfectly good stuff at your local hardware store that will dissolve/eat-away stumps. Just have a look around and you’ll see somebody has always thought of another way to do the same thing; no legal reviewing required :rolleyes: .
Good luck.

17

And the nominees for “Threads to Go Off Topic the Fastest and Degenerate into an Esoteric Pissing Contest” are. . .

18

Moderator steps in.

Enough with the insults, everyone. This is NOT the forum for that.

Since the OP made a statement

implying that he lives in California, the suggestion by BrightNShiny makes sense.

samclem GQ moderator

19

[QUOTE=Shagnasty]
That seems to prohibit outdoor bug killers, car washing, all water dumping, bug spray, and everything else. “Chemical” is a little vague isn’t it? You can cite something like that but it doesn’t mean anything. Using bleach outside isn’t disposing of it just like using any “chemical” (who writes this crap?) isn’t in normal quantities.
[/QUOTE]

Most of those things are illegal in California if waste is not disposed off properly. For example, it is illegal (no cite, since I don’t remember if it’s city, county or state level) for me to wash my car with anything but water and let the soap-contaminated water flow into a storm drain or ground. You can’t just dump water that is potentially contaminated by something because you could be contaminating the ground water. I would assume using bleach outdoors is a big no-no as well.

20

I’ve reread the thread. My second post (#6) reads snottier than I intended. If that’s what set this off, then I apologize.