[QUOTE=ShermanAter]
How can I be broke!!!
I still have checks left!!!
[/QUOTE]
And we have a winner!
-Joe
[QUOTE=Maureen]
Y’got me. My cousin is much the same way. Until I mentioned it, she wasn’t even aware that China holds such a large amount of our debt.
[/QUOTE]
How much do you think it is?
I’m getting the sense some people think China owns half the U.S. federal debt or something. I wonder how many people could actually guess it within a reasonable margin of error.
She’s a freakin’ genius compared to my co-workers who still send daily emails about how to get the gas prices down by not buying at Mobile and not buying gas on Tuesdays or some such crap. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Merijeek]
Wow, when individuals did the same thing with houses and mortgages it was the ultimate in “getting what the deserved”. But when everyone does it…
-Joe
[/QUOTE]
I’m not saying it isn’t a bad idea; I think a national balanced-budget amendment would be a good idea, in fact.
I’m just saying that it is conceivable that we could keep on doing this pretty much indefinitely.
[QUOTE=Maureen]
Y’got me. My cousin is much the same way. Until I mentioned it, she wasn’t even aware that China holds such a large amount of our debt. “What are you talking about? Of course they don’t! Our economy is stable, nobody owns us!” Well…they kinda do, actually… but we’re also talking about someone who doesn’t watch the news because there’s no happy stories anymore and it’s just too depressing. Some people just live in their own little bubbles, completely oblivious.
[/QUOTE]
I’m interested if someone can actually explain why it matters who holds our debt.
(I’m not arguing it doesn’t matter, but people often seem to associate foreign entities owning U.S. treasury bills as being some sort of doomsday scenario, it’s just a form of investment for them. While buying up U.S. debt is a pretty safe bet, high inflation can make any gains from those instruments fairly minimal–and the return on investment in various forms of t-bills isn’t that great to begin with.)
[QUOTE=RickJay]
How much do you think it is?
I’m getting the sense some people think China owns half the U.S. federal debt or something. I wonder how many people could actually guess it within a reasonable margin of error.
[/QUOTE]
I’m actually not sure without looking it up, I know that according to the Treasury Department it was in 400 billion area throughout most of 2007.
According to the Treasury Department, right now total U.S. Public Debt is around 9.5 trillion.
Assuming the Chinese haven’t drastically increased their holdings above the 400 billion level that’s around 5% or less of our total public debt.
Also, the worry has been that China would start selling a lot of U.S. debt instruments in the face of the falling dollar–there’s actually little worry about them buying more (in fact that wouldn’t be a terribly bad thing.)
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde]
I’m interested if someone can actually explain why it matters who holds our debt.
(I’m not arguing it doesn’t matter, but people often seem to associate foreign entities owning U.S. treasury bills as being some sort of doomsday scenario, it’s just a form of investment for them. While buying up U.S. debt is a pretty safe bet, high inflation can make any gains from those instruments fairly minimal–and the return on investment in various forms of t-bills isn’t that great to begin with.)
[/QUOTE]
Well, in theory they could just all decide to sell at the same time, reducing the market value of the dollar to that of pocket lint.
We’d have to spend whatever foreign currency reserves we had to import whatever we were dependent on at the time- oil, consumer electronics, cheap textiles, and so on- and when we ran out of foreign currency we’d be unable to import anything at all, resulting in a massive spiral of inflation that would eventually render the dollar as worthless here as it already would be everywhere else.
Of course, that would mean that all of China/Japan/India/Europe’s dollar investments would be worthless too, which is why they wouldn’t do it.
Beyond that, the collapse of the largest market export market in the world wouldn’t exactly do wonders for everyone else’s economy either.
[QUOTE=Ravenman]
Judging by the way you implicitly called me stupid, I think you are making the same mistake that the OP very likely made: just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them stupid. The coworker may be a dumbass, but even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then. It just so happens that most Americans really haven’t had the war impact them in a truly significant way. If “our grandkids are going to pay for what we’re doing now” is the best argument for how we are being effected by the war, then you’re implicitly acknowledging that Americans are, in the main, not really being hurt by the war.
[/QUOTE]
care to point out where I “implicitly” called you stupid? By the way, I am the OP.
Oh please. Did she try to assert that the deficit was good for the country? Did she try to say that the economy (yes the economy we have now) was Clinton’s fault? Did she try to claim that all corruption in the gubmit is the Democrats doing? Did she try to make the idiotic claim, yet again, that the Clinton’s were responsible for 100s of murders that no one is investigating? No? Then she’s miles ahead of my friend.
(Already said. Sorry.)
[QUOTE=wring]
care to point out where I “implicitly” called you stupid? By the way, I am the OP.
[/QUOTE]
Funny how I forgot your name, but noticed that you can’t distinguish disagree from dumb.
And since you started a pit thread about how your coworker is so dumb she probably can’t manage her day to day life, and then asked if I was her, I figured 1 plus 1 equals 2, and therefore you were calling me as stupid as her.
I know this tricky logic may be difficult for you to parse, but please try to keep up.
oh. I get it -you don’t get jokes. good to know.
You don’t really think Ravenman was going to find that hilarious. That would make you much more vacuous than your co-worker, who at the very least doesn’t try to pretend that you’re misinterpreting her comments.
???
that line was a fukcking joke. deal, or not.
I have a doctor’s note.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
I’m not saying it isn’t a bad idea; I think a national balanced-budget amendment would be a good idea, in fact.
I’m just saying that it is conceivable that we could keep on doing this pretty much indefinitely.
[/QUOTE]
Sure, as long as “house prices keep going up” err…“the USA stays the world’s biggest consumer market”. Forever.
-Joe
[QUOTE=wring]
???
that line was a fukcking joke. deal, or not.
[/QUOTE]
Joke or not, it still implied that Raven was stupid.
Strongly.
[tiptoes cautiously into middle of pointless slapfest]
uh, yeah, hon, it did. Imply, rather. C’mon now, the two a ya, kiss n make up. The joke fell flat, the jokee took umbrage instead. Let it go, eh?
I wonder if George Bush knows how to play a fiddle?
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
Our trade deficit- and thus the strength of the dollar- has nothing to do with borrowing to pay for the Iraq war. It was there a long, long time before the invasion.
It has everything to do with low domestic savings and the fact that we are becoming increasingly dependent on China for our manufactured goods.
[/quote]
Well, the point was, she didn’t think anyone held our debt. That we owed it to ourselves.
About 8% is what I was thinking. Apparently I wasn’t that far off.
Quite frankly, if you think that was my point, you’re even wronger, and probably not nearly as perceptive or as good at laying down the smack as you thought. Once more, in clear, simple two syllable English, just for you: The dumb bunny does not believe anyone holds our debt. Not China, not India, not Britain…no one. She believes us to be completely autono…crap… self sust…shit…that we don’t owe anyone shit.