On break, a coworker and I are sitting in break room. She’s reading the paper. She’s got a BA degree (I believe in broadcasting). She comments, while looking at the article about General Petraus’ testifying in DC, “Isn’t this country great? Here we are, able to afford a billion dollars a day over in Iraq and still not have it affect us here”.
She wasn’t kidding. She wasn’t being ironic. She wasn’t being sarcastic. She was absolutely fucking serious. I know this 'cause I replied “well, we really can’t afford it, we’re spending money we don’t have, we’re in deficit spending”. She didn’t believe me - “but the people there are being paid, real money, otherwise, they wouldn’t continue to do it, so we’ve got the money”. I tried to explain to her it was like a charge card, sure, you could spend the dollars now, but they weren’t really dollars that you had right then. She still didn’t get it.
She went on, to comment that she really agreed w/Petraus. “cause he’s there, he really knows what’s going on, who am I to tell him what to do?” and explained even more that we should always just go along w/what the generals there want. After my head stopped spinning, I tried to remind her about Rumsfeld and “you go to war w/the army you have, not the army you want”, when the administration would do anything but listen to the generals on the ground. Her reply? “yea, but they’ve got what they want now, right?” I couldn’t even go on to remind her of the steady parade of generals who ‘retired’ etc when they disagreed w/the administration.
How on earth does she manage to go about her day to day life??
Unfortunately, stupid people get along just fine…
Does she have kids? You can tell her that her kid’s share of the National Debt is $31K, and they’re the ones who are going to have to pay it, not her… http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
Y’got me. My cousin is much the same way. Until I mentioned it, she wasn’t even aware that China holds such a large amount of our debt. “What are you talking about? Of course they don’t! Our economy is stable, nobody owns us!” Well…they kinda do, actually… but we’re also talking about someone who doesn’t watch the news because there’s no happy stories anymore and it’s just too depressing. Some people just live in their own little bubbles, completely oblivious.
Brilliant idea. Now we just need Wal-Mart to buy a bunch of money printing machines from China and then we could each own our very own money making machine but the machine should not be able to print any bill larger than a $50. Being able to print out $100’s is just greedy.
I don’t think that it is a stupid statement at all to say that the war has not really had an impact on the lives of most Americans. For the most part, Americans are going about their daily business, not curtailing any of their activities, not paying additional taxes, I’d guess a large number of people don’t have family members who’ve served in Iraq. I’ve thought for a long time that our military is at war, but our country isn’t.
Of course the bills being racked up now will have to be paid. Someday we will reap what we sow, but that the war hasn’t had a significant impact on the lives of most Americans isn’t a statement of stupidity, it is one of fact. And the OP’s retort to the coworker’s statements about Petraeus were exceptionally weak.
Did you not notice that she doesn’t get that we’re spending money we don’t have???
Do you not get that a long line of distinguished and reputable generals were shot down when their assesments and requests didn’t match what the administration wanted, until they finally found their 'Yes man", and now the party line is “we listen to the generals on the ground”?
Ummm, no. As a matter of fact, it isn’t. It’s stupidity to say that the weakening dollar has had nothing to do with how much we’re borrowing to pay for Iraq. It has a huge significance. And most Americans are most definitely feeling that. The dollar is worth less. That means (and even a Ronnie Ray-Guns, trickle down economy believer can get this concept) that the cost is passed on to the average consumer in almost every area, because our decreased buying power means increased cost, and it’s the end user that pays that burden. Gas, food, job cuts, delayed infrastructure projects… we are already paying, and until we stop bleeding money, it isn’t going to start getting better.
As much as I agree with the sentiment, the money will almost certainly never be paid back. As the world’s biggest consumers, and therefore the world’s biggest market, the countries that hold our debt will never call in their markers and default us, because then they will not have anybody to sell to. Precipitating a depression is not high on the list of things that China wants to do, not smack in the middle of an economic boom.
The game is fixed, and all the US has to do is put its hand out. With that in mind, you have a point from an ethical perspective, but not really from an economic perspective.
The whole “we’re spending money we don’t have yet” thing is far too abstract for someone like her. I’d sure like to know what her credit card balances look like. Bet they’re all maxed out and a chronic thorn in her side every month, “I just don’t know where the money goes…”
Maybe so, but even if Visa doesn’t make you pay your balance, they’re not going to forgo charging you interest. Last year’s interest payments were $429,977,998,108.20, or about $1,400 per US citizen.
Our trade deficit- and thus the strength of the dollar- has nothing to do with borrowing to pay for the Iraq war. It was there a long, long time before the invasion.
It has everything to do with low domestic savings and the fact that we are becoming increasingly dependent on China for our manufactured goods.
There’s no reason we can’t just borrow even more to pay the interest, though. Frankly, deficit spending as a long-term strategy may be sustainable, as long as confidence in the US economy remains high.
Didn’t Bill Maher say the same thing a while back? Until your coworker’s got to sacrifice her silk stockings, she may be correct in that she is feeling no personal effects of the war.
Who needs confidence in the US economy?
Coz much of The world has lost it in the last twelve months.
I don’t imagine the ripples that was going to wash over the rest of the world in the next year are going to change that.
Yes, it has significance, but as Really Not All That Bright just said, the trade deficit and our interest rates as far more significance. Cite,cite,cite,cite.
And even for the part that the deficit plays in the falling dollar, the war is about $170 billion cost in a $2.1 trillion government budget running around about a $300 billion deficit. You simply cannot make a serious argument that the war is a primary, or even secondary, cause of the falling dollar.
In short, you’re wrong, and probably not as smart on this subject as you thought.
Judging by the way you implicitly called me stupid, I think you are making the same mistake that the OP very likely made: just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them stupid. The coworker may be a dumbass, but even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then. It just so happens that most Americans really haven’t had the war impact them in a truly significant way. If “our grandkids are going to pay for what we’re doing now” is the best argument for how we are being effected by the war, then you’re implicitly acknowledging that Americans are, in the main, not really being hurt by the war.
Not at all surprised. I’m surprised when I hear that people aren’t as stupid as I think they are.
And to be frank, China’s remarkable investment in the US and its effect on our dept, as well as the extent of our war spending, simply isn’t on most people’s radar.
That’s short sighted. We won’t be the world’s biggest market forever, just like England is no longer the world’s greatest empire, Russia is no longer a superpower. Rome eventually fell. The Horde broke through the Great Wall. Spain went from being a European superpower in the 16th century to being - well, Spain. At some point, the sun will set on American preeminence - possibly in our children’s lifetime, perhaps even in ours. And China might call in those markers. One thing is certain in History, no one gets to stay top dog forever.
