Yeah, count me in the “Arms don’t bend that way!” camp. I was trying to figure out how doing it the standard way of ‘wrists under hips and feet’ would result in a strangulation, unless she had something else going on that would result in that happening. :dubious:
Trying to break the chain the hard way? Committing suicide? I got nuthin’.
Let’s turn this around. If she had been discovered locked up in someone’s basement, handcuffed, and dead, is there much chance anyone would believe that she had “accidentally strangled herself with her handcuffs?” Come on. Occam’s razor. Foul play seems most likely.
I can’t grasp the mechanics either but I wouldn’t be so quick to cry foul play. Everyone seems to be missing the key fact from the article.
She wasn’t just cuffed, there was a 16 inch chain involved also.
Aha!
-FrL-
I second Frylock’s Aha! That’s a thoroughly different setup.
Except the article also states:
“When Gotbaum was found the handcuffs were in front of her body and the shackle was still attached to her handcuffs, officials said. They said the chain was not wrapped around her neck.”
Count me in the “can’t quite work out the mechanics of this” camp.
Exactly. Typically when you are shackled the chain runs through a loop of metal (Sorry, seemed to have lost my vocabulary to adequately describe loop.) That is attached to a solid bench, or wall. There are a couple of different scenarios.
One is the walking shackles, which look like the picture on the left, except that there is sometimes a loop around the waist.
http://www.unitedmaskandparty.com/Armor/images/shackles.JPG
The one on the right is something that would be clipped onto a loop.
The way it is described in the linked article says that she had on handcuffs, and the handcuffs were linked to the chain.
Still doesn’t seem physically possible.
ETA- Although it is possible to strangle others with handcuffs. Just sayin’.
Dammit!
-FrL-
Is it possible that this isn’t a case of strangulation, but of positional asphyxia?
She managed to get herself twisted up in a such a way that she asphyxiated without actually strangling herself.
According to the news this morning, her hands were behind her back and a shackle attached to both the handcuffs and an eye bolt on the bench on which she had been seated.
Apparently she had been having some mental problems and was extremely agitated. In that mental state there’s little telling what she may have tried to do.
That’s sort of what I was thinking. That “asphyxia” was misreported as “strangulation”.
Holding an old piece of network cable in my hand, I was able to get into the position drachillix described and even manage to get my hands in front of me. But I had to give myself 12" of cable and holding it in my hands gave me even more length than you get with cuffs attached at the wrist.
Maybe my shoulders are too broad and this woman was flexible, or in such a frenzy she was able to dislocate something.
Frylock, if you’re female, imagine reaching up to undo your bra with your left hand. Your right hand is resting on your left shoulder, as if you’re hugging yourself, so your chin is in the crook of your right elbow. The chain of the cuffs runs vertically behind your back. That’s how she could have gotten stuck. Imagine it pulled really tight.
With the cable in my hands and a lot of length I could do it, barely! She must’ve been in quite a frenzy in order to get so twisted up with the short length of handcull chain.
Slight nit-pick: It was an airport worker not a police officer that made that quote.
Don’t sell yourself short. After all, you did escape.
I have had occasion to be handcuffed with my hands behind my back, and there is no way on God’s green earth that I could have gotten my hands in front of me by going over my head.
The way to move your cuffed hands from behind you to in front of you is a move commonly called “skinning the cat” (I have no idea why). You bring your hands down below your butt, and scoot your butt through the loop formed by your cuffed hands. Then you pull each foot and leg up and bring them down through the loop which is now behind your knees, and viola- your hands are cuffed in the front. You have seen it in movies, I’m sure- the good guy (or bad guy, I suppose) jumps into the air, does all of that in one swift move, and is ready to fight.
This thing stinks…
Ok, you have to do it with handcuffs, not cord, there is a difference, and length plays an important part.
In addition, in your scenario, could you please explain to me how you got from (A)two hands behind your back, to
(B)“reaching up to undo your bra with your left hand. Your right hand is resting on your left shoulder, as if you’re hugging yourself, so your chin is in the crook of your right elbow. The chain of the cuffs runs vertically behind your back. That’s how she could have gotten stuck. Imagine it pulled really tight.”
There is no physical way to get from A to B. None.
So it seems to me as well.
-FrL-
Actually it wasn’t so bad. I can’t imagine doing it with handcuffs that would be too short for me, but I’ve got male shoulders and I’m not flipping out in a frenzy.
Moved both hands as far right as I could behind my back.
Rotated my right wrist clockwise so that my inner wrist was facing outwards away from the side of my body.
Bent my right elbow kind of like I was trying to stick my finger in my ear (so if you were facing me from the front, you would see my right hand sweeping from 6 o’clock to 11 o’clock). This was really hard, because holding onto the cable, it pulled my right arm rather uncomfortably, so it was more in line with the arm behind my back, rather than my body. Ow! This pulled my left hand further to the right, and my left hand could hold on to my right elbow. This was very uncomfortable for my left deltoid muscle. Ow!
This is the part that, for me, would be impossible with the shortness of handcuffs and the rigidity of a chain, I’m just not that flexible. But someone in the throws of mental illness with quite the adrenalin rush, and a lot more flexibility may be able to do it: I tipped my head way right and got the cable over my head. Bascially, I forced my right elbow up as far as I could without hurting myself, made like I was trying to sniff my own right armpit, and then dragged my right bicep down over my nose, smooshing it.
Now I was in the position where my left hand was being pulled up the center of my back, and my right hand was on my left shoulder. Point A to Point B.
Trying it right now again, this time with my girlfriend’s hair elastic thing – only 4" inches fully stretched between my middle fingers – I can just barely do it. But I can, and this distance the cable is only a third of what I tried at work. I had the worst time getting my arm over my head again. I smooshed my nose more and it hurt my left shoulder more.
Note: This time I just came from a rock climbing gym , so my shoulders are a lot looser and stretched out well. I’m way more limber.
I’m just a hair under 6’0" and my shoulders are decently broad. I don’t know how short the woman was, but her shoulder witdth is probably a lot more narrow than mine. If she had more flexibility, or was enraged enough to ignore pain or to tear muscles, I think she could do it with the shorter chain.
I’m not sure though about the chain being attached at the wrist. Jeebus, that would have scraped my nose right off my face. Holding the hair band, so it was inline with the center of my palms was really uncomfortable. Had it been in line with my wrists, I don’t think I could have done it withour tearing something in my deltoids. If a serial killer had me hand cuffed and it was a matter of life and death, I think I could do it though. Maybe.
I can try to diagram it at work and post a link, if you don’t mind shoddy stick figures. I’m no artist.
Youtube!
-FrL-
Well, technically, that isn’t quite the same as being “wrapped around the neck,” but it appears the chain was involved, not just the cuffs.
Also, since the woman was headed to some kind of rehab/detox center, I’m going to guess she had had one last blow-out before boarding. Maybe that’s why she was late. :dubious:
Regardless of how the poor woman’s actual death happened, it doesn’t seem like good procedure to leave somebody that agitated alone for 15 minutes. If they were going by the book, then the book needs some work.