Mostly because it’s an easy way to get votes. Anti abortion voters will happily vote against their own economic self interests, letting you cripple their unions, pollute their environment, and send their children off to unnecessary wars if you just pay lip service to the anti-abortion movement. Were it not for single issue voters, Republicans would be an endangered species.
Because in most cases it’s unjustified homicide.
Yes, and the answers given by pkbites and doorhinge, and subsequently by you, were factually incorrect.
It is not objectively, factually true that (many) conservatives are against abortion because abortion is murder or unjustified homicide. It is objectively, factually true that many conservatives are against abortion because they personally consider abortion to be murder or unjustified homicide.
I’m not asserting that their personal belief about that is morally wrong (I personally happen to disagree with it, but I recognize that it’s a matter of opinion on which reasonable people can disagree). But they are not entitled to assert their personal belief without qualification as though it were an objective fact.
The vast majority of abortions performed in this country are legal, and thus do not legally qualify as murder or unjustified homicide. Any application of a term like “murder” or “unjustified homicide” to any legal act is necessarily a matter of subjective ethical opinion.
Out of curiosity, anyone know if there is a breakdown of pro choice/pro life by religion? I’d be interested in how many on the pro life side aren’t using religion as a basis for their beliefs.
They think the fetus is a human life, and to end it is murder. Read the signs, listen to the speeches.
It is a form of a human, with a heartbeat, organs, etc. Killing a life = murder. That is why the gallup information I posted on what is believed is interesting. Some people have no problem with 1st Trimester, but start to have issues in the 2nd and certainly by the 3rd. This overlaps with both ends of the spectrum.
Some on the pro-life side go so far as to have funeral type events upon a miscarriage - because they believe it is a life that was lost.
It is in the link I posted earlier:
Catholic: 54% Pro Life
Protestant: 54% Pro Life
No religion: 15% Pro Life
I was coming in here to post something similar to this. I see more or less the same three prevailing ideas. Yes, some will say it’s only because of mysogyny, and I’m sure for some that’s true, but I don’t believe that’s true for the majority.
Obviously, for a majority it’s a matter of defining when life begins and it’s either because life is sacred (typically religious) or because they just believe that the right to life trumps the right to choices over one’s body. Obviously, if it’s religiously motivated, then the only discussion to be had is whether or not that is enough reason for a law to ban it, but considering that tends to come from people who are willing to pass other religiously motivated laws, like SSM bans, it’s consistent. Unfortunately, this is a pretty fruitless discussion since the only way to change their views is to convince them that religiously motivated legislation is a bad idea.
I do think the rights based argument is interesting, and at least in my view as a libertarian, I think it presents a dilemma. I do tend to agree that the right to life will, in general, trump other rights, but even if we accept that, we don’t accept that is true for all forms of life. So, the question then arises about exactly when the value of those rights intersect. For those holding that view, as opposed to the religious one, I don’t think any would argue that a zygote has an intrinsic right to life such that it should trump a woman’s right to choose, but I do think most would argue that a child that she’s already carried to term, is fully viable, and chooses to abort rather than give live birth probably ought to. So, I think this could be an interesting argument trying to decide where a line ought to be drawn, or whether it’s too muddy to draw one.
As far as “sex has consequences”, I have heard and seen this argued, but ultimately it seems to be derived from one of the above views. I don’t necessarily agree, but there’s an impression that there are some women out there that are reckless, don’t bother with birth control if it’s inconvenient, because they can just get an abortion if they get pregnant. I suppose it’s theoretically possible that those women exist, but if they do, they’re vanishingly rare. Some might argue that, well, even if they take precautions and they fail, they should just deal with it, that seems to fall back on the first view, where others might argue that if the precautions fail, as long as they make a decision before whatever they feel that arbitrary reasonable line is, then it’s not really that bad, then they’re more like the second.
Personally, I don’t identify as a conservative, but as a libertarian, but I oppose banning abortion. And even some of my friends and acquaintances who actually do identify as conservative oppose banning abortion too. In general, it seems to me that the major motivations tend to be the religiously motivated, and the rest are going to be more willing to discuss some kind of middle ground either because of philosophical or pragmatic reasons.
Factually incorrect? Really?
The SCOTUS decided the legal issue.
Many people still believe that abortion is murder and that murder is wrong, morally if not legally. Others reject that personal opinion and insist on inventing their own reasons for why other people object to abortion.
What, no Muslim, Buddhist, Wiccan, Jew?
Or it could be that they believe that abortion is murder.
(Not everything is about politics but it seems that everything can become political. :D)
Ask Gallup.
Because they claim to be “pro-life” when, in fact, they couldn’t give a rat’s about you once you’re out of the womb unless you’re rich and/or “white,” and/or buy into all their B.S. I’m not all that “big” on abortion, either (I’d rather see women put their babies up for adoption or, better yet, not get pregnant in the first place when they’re not ready to raise a kid), but at least I, and others like me, don’t pretend to care about humans when they’re unborn and then (figuratively) toss them aside like yesterday’s garbage once they’re born. “Pro-life” is one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated on the U.S. public. “Pro-fetus” is more (MUCH more) accurate. But I wouldn’t expect those people to ever be up front about how they really feel about things, unless it came to something like “You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.”
Even simpler? That shooting people with guns and killing them is murder, too. But I don’t hear much about conservatives being against gun ownership in this country, 'cause, you know 2nd Amendment!
One thing I’ve always wanted to test is, if I was to give you a chickens egg, a hatchet, and a live chicken, whether you’d agree that cracking open the egg feels no different to you than holding the chicken down and whackng its head off with the hatchet?
Personally, I would bet that an large majority of people on the planet would feel that there is a significant and quantifiable difference between these two acts.
If we want to to go down this path - a woman is is allowed to kill a fetus when it “invades” her body, but if I kill a guy who invades my home liberals start screaming about how I murdered him and shouldn’t be allowed to defend myself with guns, and that I had a duty to retreat. It is liberals who attack castle laws, except when the castle is a woman’s body.
Me? I am pro choice AND pro gun - protect yourself however necessary. It is your life you are protecting.
Yes, that’s what I said.
But “Many conservatives are against abortion because they believe abortion to be murder” is not the same statement as “Many conservatives are against abortion because abortion is murder”.
The former statement is factually true, whereas the latter is asserting a subjective opinion about the nature of abortion as though it were an objective fact.
You are (at least partly) right about this, but it has nothing to do with the specific point I was making about subjectivity and objectivity in expressions of the belief that abortion is murder.
It is a hell of a lot easier to crack an egg. Killing a chicken requires more skill with the neck snap, and you need to watch out for the spurs (I have a scar from a pheasant that was only “mostly dead.”
But I am an outlier no doubt.
Fallacy. 99%+ of gun owners don’t murder anyone. 100% of abortions do.
Saying that abortion is murder does not make it a fact. Legally, it’s obviously not murder. Morally, there is significant disagreement.
If you murder someone with a knife, pipe wench, candlestick, rope, pistol, or lead pipe, you will probably be charged with murder and tried in court.