Someone elsewhere mentioned that in Israel that soldiers are required to carry their guns when off duty and also for several years after active duty, so you see people who aren’t dressed as soldiers carrying guns around. The guy working at a fast food restaurant may have a weapon. I’ve never been there so I don’t know.
I tried to look online, and what I found was the opposite, they said Israel restricted soldiers ability to carry guns off the base because of the increased suicide risk of the soldiers having easy access to their guns. But maybe that was a different policy vs now.
If soldiers do carry their guns around (both on duty and off duty), do they carry a sidearm or their rifle? What models do they tend to carry?
What about non-military types, do they tend to carry guns around in public? Is open carry among people not in the military common? If so, is that more sidearm or rifle based?
According to this, gun control in Israel is fairly strict by US standards.
I don’t know where you went in Israel. Admittedly, it was not something I was really paying attention to, but I did not notice any Yosemite Sam types walking down the street. I did see an occasional soldier, presumably on their way to or from a base, but they were in uniform and armed with normal infantry weapons, i.e., an assault rifle, not a random sidearm. Cops, security guards, etc. had handguns.
I lived in Haifa for three months a couple of years ago, and yes, you see young people with big guns pretty much everywhere pretty frequently. On the buses, at the university, on the street. It’s noticeable.
Sure, you see lots of soldiers with weapons. I’ve been one of those soldiers, on occasion.
A few clarifications: the rifle sissued aren’t the soldiers’ personal property. They’re issued by whatever unit they’re serving in, and are returned when they change units or are discharged. If you’re called up for reserve duty, you sign for a new weapon, and return it when you’re done. If you’re not active duty you don’t get a weapon.
The reason you see so many of them around is because Israel has a large army in relative terms, and a tiny amount of territory in actual terms. the latter means that the IDF can afford a very generous leave policy - there’s virtually nowhere an Israeli soldier can be deployed that isn’t a few hours on a bus from their parents’ house, so whenever they can let people go home for the weekend, they will. Most units don’t even provide laundry services, because it’s cheaper to let troops’ moms wash their clothing. Israel is the only country in the world where enlisting in the military isn’t considered leaving home.
So if soldiers are going home every other week - or more often - asking them to hand over their weapons each time would be pointless, not to mention a bureaucratic nightmare. It’s easier to just let them go home with their rifles. There’s also the belief that having trained riflemen around might contribute to public security; there have certainly been cases in which soldiers passing by have helped stop terrorist attacks.
So that’s why you see plenty of armed soldiers walking around. Some of them aren’t in uniform simply because they changed into civvies before they got home. You certainly don’t have to carry your weapon around if you’re on leave; most guys just stash it in a cabinet somewhere.
As for what weapon: regular infantry and special ops types carry either the X95 Tavor or the M4A1 (the same weapon the U.S. military uses). Everyone else carries the CAR-15, a shortened version of the venerable M16A1. The Israeli military sees pistols as largely useless and rarely issues sidearms.
Non-military types rarely carry weapons in public, unless they need them for their jobs. The vast majority of private gun-owners keep them under lock and key at home. The exception is Israelis living in the West Bank, who tend to be big fans of open carry. Not coincidentally, a disproportionately large number of them are Americans.
Alessan pretty much covered the subject. I just wanted to note that the rifles you see soldiers carrying around are not loaded-- at least, I didn’t see magazines in them. I cannot say whether there was a bullet chambered, but I would doubt it.
I do not know, either, whether people who carried rifles were also carrying loaded magazines in a pocket, or whether the rifle was useful only as a blunt instrument.
FWIW, you do see soldiers in uniform, pretty much wherever you are-- or, wherever I have been, and I’ve been to diverse cities. When I was in the US military, we were told not to wear our uniforms off base, unless we were traveling on military business, or doing something else that was military business. It made us targets, was the theory.
You still saw lots of people in uniform around any place there was a base. In the US, you can go pretty far without encountering a base. As Alessan said, not in Israel. I’m not sure what the rule in Israel is for wearing the uniform off-duty, but I think it’s actually encouraged in Israel. Most of the Israelis I know are in their 40s to 70s (yes, I have a friend who was a kibbutz baby), and they say that they were encouraged to wear their uniforms off-duty, unless they were doing something that necessitated not wearing it. Don’t know whether that has changed.
A gun without bullets is kind of pointless, isn’t it? If you’re carrying a weapon, you have to have at least one full magazine on you. That’s the rule. Chambering a round is out of the question, of course, and you’re not supposed have a magazine inserted unless you also have something like this inserted in order to show that isn’t loaded.
I’m 46, and we couldn’t wait to get home and get that damn uniform off. They can “encourage” all they want, but when we were home, we were free.
Implicit in the OP’s question is, I think, not just the factual question of how common it is for Israelis to carry guns, but also how Israeli culture accepts it. And I assume that means you are interested in comparing it with America and its gun culture.
And that’s the big difference. America’s gun culture is deeply rooted in the national psyche. Gun owners are proud of their guns, and they see gun ownership as a major part of their personal identity. The gun is a vital symbol. (A symbol of…well, it doesn’t really matter of what. Maybe it’s a symbol of freedom, maybe it’s macho masculinity, maybe it’s just a love of violence) . The important aspect of American gun culture is that the gun itself is fricking importantj. “Look at me!!! I have a gun”
Even Americans who hate guns put a huge value of importance on the symbolism of the gun…(ie. the fact that they are not gun-owners is also an important part of their psyche.
This attitude doesn’t exist in Israel .
In Israel, a gun is just a tool that some people use, mostly in uniform, but not always.
Unlike America, the gun isn’t a hugely important cultural value. It’s just something that you may see once in awhile, but you don’t attach any great importance to seeing one.
For example: the last wedding I attended (pre-Covid). A typical wedding with 300 guests and dancing, etc. One of the people seated at the table next to me had a pistol stuck in the waistband of his pants. . It wasn’t particularly visible under his shirt, but it also wasn’t anything he was trying to hide. And nobody cared. I only noticed because while dancing, he held his hand awkwardly over the gun to keep it from falling…
Another anecdote: A while back, I was visiting a nature park, with a hiking trail alongside a stream and a view of a small waterfall. There were maybe 20 or so families in the area, and at the lookout point with the best view I was standing alongside about 10 people, including a family of 3: A 19 or 20 year old with his grandparents. They were trying to take a selfie pic, but having difficulty, so I took their camera and snapped the pic for them. The guy standing between his grandparents was wearing jeans and a Tshirt, and had an army assault rifle casually over his shoulder. Nobody cared.
Again, the only reason I noticed is that I asked him to move it a bit to the back so his grandma could stand closer and fit in the picture frame.
I’m not Israeli, but I have been to Israel a few times, and I know many Israelis. Israelis who live in the US are just as befuddled as other non-US citizens living here by the attachment US citizens have to their guns.
And US citizens sometimes think it’s odd seeing so many Israelis with military rifles, because that’s not what we are accustomed to seeing in the US, but in Israel, it’s normal, for the reasons Alessan explained. I’ve even heard people from the US tell me Israel is odd because you see so many teens with rifles. As though it would be perfectly OK if they were 30.
I’ve heard countless American gun rights supporters say exactly that. So maybe you aren’t really describing the difference in American and Israeli gun attitudes.
Ah, but the difference lies in that the Americans may say that, but by their behavior and attitude you can tell they want to make a point to be seen carrying and to make sure you saw them carrying.
Alessan points out:
IOW people who feel they are at higher risk and want to signal to not be messed with.
BTW…
American gun-fans sometimes refer to “Israeli carry”, to point out they instead prefer to carry locked and hot. (The U.S. National Guardsmen posted to DC in the recent months don’t go around locked and loaded at all times, either. The mags are in the pouches. )
Haha hi! I really don’t know what made me randomly revisit the forum, but I’m glad I did. Good to know that I’m still remembered a bit. How have you been?
By “tool” I did not mean to imply that a gun is a mundane toy. Israelis certainly know how deadly a gun is.
My point was that Israelis don’t see guns as a symbol, as a political issue, or as an important part of their personal identity (as I described in my post above). Israelis see guns as what they are–deadly tools , for self defense,–to be treated carefully, but nothing to be afraid of, and nothing to make a big issue about…
They just assume that the person carrying the gun is a normal, responsible citizen, and react accordingly.
It’s not a shock to see a guy carrying tools, even in a wedding hall or a nature preserve. And so your average Israeli grandma also isn’t surprised to see somebody carrying a gun in everyday situations either.
Collapsible stock. I’m not sure the rifles used by the IDF (known as “M16 Mekutzar”, meaning "Shortened M16) have any official designation - I used “CAR-15” as a shorthand. I think they’re old M16A1s that the U.S. dumped on Israel, with the barrel shortened and the stock and foregrip replaced by IDF armories. They’re not as modern as an M4 or Tavor, but they’re good enough for non-infantry and reservists, which means that by they’re by far the most widely-used weapons in the IDF.
I’m more of a reader than a poster but hell yeah I remember you! You were a favorite of mine back in the day. I did quite the double take when I saw your name. I hope you will think about sticking around, maybe class the joint up a bit. Or down a bit.
I notice you skipped right over the ghost question…
