Re the Jewish injunction against eating pork. Is it considered a mortal sin to eat pork, or is it just very bad manners? Can you come back from being a pork eater to being a good Jew again, or at some point of consumption are you considered irredeemably spiritually polluted in some fashion?
IANAR (nor am I Jewish), but I asked a Jewish friend of mine the same question (more or less) a while back. He is a Conservative Jew, and answers may vary between Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform Judaism. If an actual Jew answers this question I will, of course, defer to his more expert knowledge.
Firstly, I don’t know if Judaism makes much distinction between “mortal” and “venal” sin. You are either obeying G-d or you aren’t, and why you do something counts less than what you do. Having said that, if you fool someone who keeps kosher a ham sandwich cleverly disguised as a pastrami-on-rye and he eats it in good faith, he has done nothing wrong, but YOU have. If he knew the meat was suspect but he was starving, he is also blameless, since it is permissible to violate one law if in doing so you are upholding a greater law – it’s better to eat pig than die (Rabbinic teachings may vary on this – Any Rabbi lurkers, here’s your opening ;)).
That’s about as much as I know, but I’m not clear on how one becomes “clean” (ritually, that is) after having a ham sandwich, nor if just touching one is considered not good.
I think I’ll subscribe to this thread. I find the topic interesting, to say the least.
–SSgtBaloo
There are three main groups of Judaism. Orthodox (Observant), Conservative, and Reform. (Note- IANAJ ) ;j
The answer depends on which you are- to an Orthodox man it is very important- to a Reform, it is “just” a tradition.
But there are several Orthodox posters here- one of them will be along to give you the exact answer as to their Sect/Faith.
Speaking as an Orthodox Jew…
The prohibition against eating non-kosher food (and other non-kosher foods) is actually the matter of a commandment and not simply “good manners.” As such, eating non-kosher food is forbidden (except, of course, in cases where one’s life is in danger).
There is a concept in Judaism called teshuva (repentence). One can atone for any sin with sincere repentence. It does not make a difference how long you have been sinning. Sincere repentence has the following components:
(1) Regret for having done the sin
(2) Verbal confession of the sin (to God)
(3) Resolving not to commit that sin again
(4) (Assuming the sin was against a fellow man) Making restitution and/or asking forgivness.
#4 doesn’t apply in this case. However, you would still need #1 - 3.
Zev Steinhardt
This could fire things up a bit. The prohibition against pigs also had a lot to do with general health. The elders (witchdoctors, shamen, rabbis, imans, and the like) also had a medical function to the tribe, city, region. Eating pork and similar in an uncooked or partially cooked state would sicken or kill you then as now. The elders may not have known the specific reason but did notice the cause and effect relationship. Many religions placed prohibitions against certain acts detrimental to health into the teachings and writings. Whole stories, myths, happenings were created to justify the action. It was a way to influence/coerce the masses into doing the right thimg.
Religious tomes are compilations of writings done by man (men in particular you may have noticed). If you are extremely devout - these are the word of “God” passed directly to an earthly being for disemination. A skeptic would say there was significant influence in what book, passage, songs were included/excluded depending on the point being made. A good talk with an objective theologian in your religion can be educational.
Back to the point. If you cooked it well and were not sickened, go forth and praise God and treat others fairly. Had the elders had microscopes there would have been prohibitions agains eating bacteria or parasites instead of the whole animal.
Well, smithsb, I don’t dispute the fact that there were indeed good medical benefits to be had from keeping kosher, but I am of the opinion that your post misses the real point behind the kosher laws.
The kosher laws are meant to set the Jews apart from others, as a holy people to G-d. If the only reason for them was to avoid bacteria/disease, then why the prohibition against wearing a garment of mixed linen and wool?
Your post has an interesting point of view, but (with all due respect) should not be used as advice to an observant Jew, nor as information for anyone trying to understand a tenet of Judaism, which I think was what the OP was after.
I defer to the excellent answer given by Zev_Steinhardt.
Welcome to the boards smithsb.
The OP asked (presumably) about Jews today. Orthodox Jews who keep kosher today do not do so out of fears of disease. They do so because they believe that God told them to do so. Other Jews may do so for cultural reasons. But no one today does it primarily because of disease prevention.
Zev Steinhardt
A related question. My understanding is that observant Jews won’t eat in most restaurants, because the kitchens are not kept kosher. But would they eat in a vegetarian restaurant? Or is there too much potential for mistakes, and they would stick to only certified kosher restaurants?
My wife is a Reform Jew, and not a very observant one at that. We had a pork loin at our wedding, but we do try to keep things (mostly) kosher at Passover dinner. Also, there are more to the kosher food laws than just “no pork”. There’s also “no chicken alfredo or pepperoni pizza” (milk with meat), “no clam chowder or lobster bisque” (shellfish), “no Louisiana alligator sausage” (reptile), and various other things. We observe the major Jewish holidays and the stricter Passover food restrictions, but that’s about it. Here’s some more information on kosher laws.
illnesses from eating undercooked meat from cows, sheep, and goats. One of the plagues was a disease that affected the Egyptians cattle. Second, the kashrut aslo requires that all slaughtered animals be inspected for disease. The stricter glatt kosher classification came from a disagreement over whether certain things in the lungs of the animal rendered it unclean. Why ban a species due to disease, when the allowed species must be thoroughly examined before they can be eaten? Finally the prohibition bans all pork, not just undercooked pork. If undercooked pork was the problem, the commandment would be to cook it thoroughly.
Back To The OP
SSgtBaloo As a Jew, my knowledge of what constitutes a mortal or venal sin comes largely from films on Catholic schools. I’d like to remind everybody that the SS in his name is due to his being either a Staff Sergeant or Senior Sergeant.
If I remember correctly Judaism recognizes three types of sin: sins against G-d, sins against others, and sins against oneself.
Never heard of against oneself, but the ones I know are:
Me’Ish La’Makom - From man to the place (god)
Me’Ish Le’Chavero- From man to his friend
Hmm, the beginning of my previous post was eaten.
smithsb I’ve heard that explanation many times. It doesn’t hold up. First, There are plenty of diseases humans can get through eating the meat of cows, sheep, or goats.
Re Restaurants
It varies from Jew to Jew even among the Orthodox. It doesn’t help that different people use vegetarian to mean different things. Even if the restaraunt were strictly vegan, there are still concerns. According to some Jews, a used oven must be cleansed before it can be considered kosher. This requires a special ceremony and the use of a small acetylene torch (seriously). Unless the restaurant bought new sinks, counter tops, ranges, ovens, etc some Jews will consider all food made in that kitchen treife.
[QUOTE=smithsb]
The prohibition against pigs also had a lot to do with general health. The elders (witchdoctors, shamen, rabbis, imans, and the like) also had a medical function to the tribe, city, region. Eating pork and similar in an uncooked or partially cooked state would sicken or kill you then as now.
[QUOTE]
I’m not a believer in any particular religion, but as a college professor of mine once said in response to this exact point, “What have you proven except that God knows what’s good for you?”
I thought there were some sins that needed some ritual cleansing? Something to do with having sex during your wife’s period? And, do not the dishes need to be purified? I remember that some dishwasher used very hot water and this was enough tio render the dishes “pure” again, or am i crazy? ;j
A non-kosher restaurant kitchen must be thoroughly cleansed and all utensils either purified (if they can stand it) or replaced.
I heard last year about some big hotels attempting to tap into the previously-goy-only “Easter brunch” money-spending phenomenon by setting aside one kitchen to be designated kosher during certain Jewish holy days. Then they cleanse it with a rabbi present, etc. This way, people who might ordinarily stay home for a kosher meal will come out and overspend for one! Yea!
It would be very difficult, time-consuming and expensive for a person to move between kosher and non-kosher in their own kitchen.
On the so-called “rationales” for the laws of kosher, you might try this Staff Report. Granted, it’s got a lot more in it, like a summary of the laws, but the brilliant SDSAB also comments that various people over the centuries have tried various rationales. None of them are anything more than speculative, and usually designed to support some hidden agenda (like, "“the dietary rules were based on health and so are no longer necessary in the modern world.”)
In Judaism, a sin is a violation of a commandment or rule. As others have said, it’s not just a matter of good manners – it was the law of the land, in ancient times. Yes, there were some sins that were punishable by death and others that were punished by fines. Most of the laws with specific punishments were related to the system of jurisprudence (such as it was) – i.e., offenses (we’d say, “crimes” or “misdemeanors”) against other persons. Sins against God alone (like eating the wrong foods), it was mostly left up to the individual to seek forgiveness, and it was up to God to handle punishment or mercy.
So…
a Jew is off the hook if they unknowingly eat non-kosher (as it is with muslims that eat non-halal) assuming they’ve taken steps to be kosher and through malice or hapenstance happen to get some pork or shellfish, or whatever (ala Sienfeld).
What about the person who provided the non-kosher food - I’m guessing no one is going to be happy with them, but from a traditional point of view what sort of punishment would one receive for purposefully decieving a Jew in this way?
No. Having sex with one’s wife during her menstruation is a sin. However, the method of repentence for this sin is the same as for any other. Simply follow the steps I outlined above.
I’m afraid you’re confusing two issues here.
There is a concept in halacha that utensils (including dishes) absorb the flavors of hot foods placed therein. Likewise, they also release some of those “flavors” when they are heated again (usually by means of placing other hot foods on them). Therefore, one cannot use dishes that were used for ham, for example, because then the ham flavor would be imparted into the kosher food you were eating, rendering it non-kosher. That’s why Jews keep two sets of dishes, one for dairy and one for meat, since mixing the two is forbidden.
Some utensils (based on the material that they are made out of) can be kashered if they have become non-kosher. The method of kashering depends on the material. In some cases, one can use hot water to kasher utensils and surfaces, in other cases not.
This, however, is not a ritual to “cleanse” oneself of the sin. One can do a complete repentence and simply decide to dispose of the dishes. Or, conversely, one may have to kasher his dishes even if there was no sin involed (i.e. you were forced to use the dishes for non-kosher food; one recovered stolen pots that were used for non-kosher cooking, etc). In short, the kashering of dishes has nothing to do with forgiveness for a sin. It’s purely a technical matter.
Zev Steinhardt
Yes and no. It depends.
In halachic literature, there are three degrees of severity for sins. They are:
mayzid - willful action
shogeg - negligence
ones - “forced” (i.e. blameless)
The first case would be someone who wilfully picks up a ham sandwich and chows down. For this act, the person is 100% responsible.
The second case would be someone who could have done more to prevent the situation from occuring. For example - someone who travels out to a remote place and now finds that he has no kosher food available. This could have been prevented by either packing kosher food beforehand or, if that’s not possible, not going on the trip in the first place. IOW, the situation was preventable. In such a case, the person has a degree of responsibility and requires repentence, but not to the degree that a willful act does.
The last case is where one is forced to eat non-kosher food because of events beyond his control (famine, shipwrecked, threatened, etc.). In such cases, one, in fact, must eat non-kosher food to survive and starving oneself would be a sin.
Someone who knowingly causes one to sin is in violation of Leviticus 19:14 (placing a stumbling block in front of the blind).
Zev Steinhardt
I’ll defer to the excellent discussion of kashrut by Zev and others, and only raise a different point that is important to me:
Judaism is not only a religion. It is also certainly a culture, and more debatably an ethnicity as well.
As an atheist Jew, I find the whole matter of Kashrut irrelevant to my daily life. I don’t think it makes me less of a Jew, nor a worse one.
So my (very personal) answer to the OP is “not at all”.
Dani