How Democrats should talk about socialism

You are changing what was brought up. Trump referred to people on both sides of the stature debate, you are moving to the much smaller group of wannabe Nazis (self proclaimed with their regalia) and whatever the chant was/ who was chanting (I have not heard the recording; I have heard they were saying YOU will not replace us, but whatever).

I know we have differences, but describing all or most Republicans and/ or right of center Americans as fascists is a calumny and, worse, avoids any resolution of our differences.

I’m talking about the people who marched at Charlottesville, and so was Trump.

Are antifa anarchists?

Yeah. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/03/21/trump_didnt_call_neo-nazis_fine_people_heres_proof_139815.html

An excerpt:

"Here are the unambiguous actual words of President Trump:

“Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”

After another question at that press conference, Trump became even more explicit:

“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”"

Democrats should talk about socialism the same way they would talk about pedophilia.

You know what to call people who march alongside Nazis who are wearing and carrying Nazi/racist flags and regalia? Nazis.

Not “very fine people”. The marchers were Nazis, racists, and white supremacists. Trump’s explanation is bullshit.

I’m not one to take that first paragraph too far, but it’s definitely appropriate in a rally called “Unite the Right”: those who did not want to be considered “united” with Nazis should not have come.

So if you march with Communists, does that make you a Communist? Because I have seen Communists marching at a lot of left-wing marches.

If the communists are dominating the march, shouting communist slogans, and carrying well known communist imagery on flags, then IMO, yes, you can be reasonably characterized as a communist (or communist-enabler).

Okay, I’ll repeat:

After another question at that press conference, Trump became even more explicit:

“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

I’d like someone better to be President, too, but focus on something substantial that doesn’t sound to others as fake news. There are real issues with Trump, and this isn’t one to beat him with. (Neither is ‘collusion’. IMHO.)

Trump’s a liar, which shouldn’t be news to anyone. He praised the Charlottesville “Unite the Right” marchers; the Charlottesville “Unite the Right” marchers were white supremacists and neo-Nazis. He praised white supremacists and neo-Nazis.

We are going to remain in disagreement, then.

Except that one of you is arguing *with *the facts, the other *against *them.

Bumping this with an interesting article that mirrors the arguments I’ve made:

https://www.thenation.com/article/socialism-united-states-military/

Way to break the KISS rule.
The Republicans will respond with something like “See! Democrats have been letting Socialism creep into our system for decades, and a lot of the time they were the instigators!”

Okay – a simpler argument: “We’ve always been partially socialist”.

Republican response: “And we are the only ones that can fix that defect. We can make America great!”

Agree with both points, and I think the response should be to hoist the conservative right on their own petard.

They’ve defined “socialist” to the American public as meaning “a dictatorship runs things and everything is run by the state”.

Initiatives like universal health care should be billed as akin to the interstate highway system or having a police force.

The current clown-in-chief should be called a socialist. He’s a puppet of the Russians, he aspires to dictatorship, and he wants to run everything instead of letting the states go their own direction.

That’s a weak argument, IMO.

Listen carefully: You need to understand that the target of the message is not yourself, and it is not those who already agree with you. It is those out there with busy lives and little time for detail. If you want a message to stick, you need to get it in first(and often), and you need to keep it very simple. Every damn time a Democrat mentions the word “Socialism” in response to the Republican message it reinforces the original simple message the Republicans have already implanted. If you need to talk about programs you support, do NOT do it as a response to what the Republicans say, do NOT use the same words that have already been successfully demonized, keep if simple, and repeat that same simple original message until it sticks.