How did faith healers in ancient days do what they do

[Wesley_Clark]

I’m reading the book Zealot by Reza Aslan, in it he claims a lot of faith healers were walking around and operating in the Jerusalem area during Roman occupation around the time of Jesus. He claims people claiming to be the messiah, exorcising demons and healing the sick were a dime a dozen, Jesus was just one of many.

So with all these faith healers operating, how exactly did they do what they did? Did they use hypnosis and the power of suggestion to help people temporarily overcome their illness? Did they select people who were just acting, or something else?

As far as the placebo effect, I’ve read some stories about people with multiple personality disorder (DID) and there are stories of people who had one personality that was diabetic and another personality that wasn’t, and depending on which personality was in charge would change how the body reacted to sugar. Or stories about people’s eye color changing based on which personality was in charge.

NEW FOCUS ON MULTIPLE PERSONALITY (Published 1985)

‘‘Multiples exhibit some remarkable medical phenomena.’’ Dr. Putnam said. He gives the example of one patient who reacted normally to a sedative drug in one personality, but was totally unaffected by it in another.

‘‘Some multiples carry several different eyeglasses, because their vision changes with each personality,’’ said Bennett Braun, who directs a unit devoted to treating multiple personalities at the Rush-Presbyterian-St. Luke’s Medical Center in Chicago. Dr. Braun reports the case of a young woman who in one personality was colorblind for blue and green, a problem that ended with the successful treatment of her multiple-personality condition. Another woman, admitted to a hospital for diabetes, baffled her physicians by showing no symptoms of the disorder at times when one personality, who was not diabetic, was dominant. A young man was allergic to citrus fruit in some personalities, but not in others.

So was faith healing in ancient times a form of hypnosis and suggestion?

[Der_Trihs]

I expect a great many were outright frauds using much the same kind of tricks modern frauds do; barring hi-tech stuff naturally. It’s pretty easy to make the lame walk when the lame guy could walk all along and is in on the scam with you.

[Amateur_Barbarian]

Most healing is a matter of time. “Proper medical attention can cure a cold in seven days, but left to itself it will hang on for a week.”

I think that most people, conditioned to taking a pill or running to a doctor for every illness or injury, assume that they will not heal or get better without professional attention. The truth is that most illnesses and injuries will cure and heal with nothing more than a little rest and a little very basic first aid.

This is not to say that a bad cut will disappear without expert attention; it won’t and will probably leave a scar or impaired function. But it won’t kill you every time. Ditto for most diseases.

So if a shaman or faith healer or other pre-scientific medical practitioner knew a few little things about wound treatment, broken bones and the common illnesses, s/he could work what seemed to be miracles by just getting the patient to hold still and heal/get better.

[the_diego]

Sleight of hand. One can make an incision on the neck with just his/her fingers, make blood ooze out, and extract a dead cockroach.

[jayjay]

Not to mention that the state of “medicine” as it existed at the time was really no better than any kind of actual charlatanry. That actually held up until at least the Renaissance and probably the middle of the Industrial Revolution.

[Grumman]

@jayjay

Not to mention that the state of “medicine” as it existed at the time was really no better than any kind of actual charlatanry. That actually held up until at least the Renaissance and probably the middle of the Industrial Revolution.

That was how homeopathy got started, isn’t it? By just being useless rather than actively harmful?

[Wesley_Clark]

So again, I’m assuming it was a mix of hypnosis/placebos to provide temporary relief, or the people being healed were in on the act.

Has anyone done a more in depth study of this kind of thing? Either contemporary or historical faith healers?

[Czarcasm]

@Wesley_Clark

Has anyone done a more in depth study of this kind of thing? Either contemporary or historical faith healers?

James Randi wrote an excellent book titled “The Faith Healers”. If you don’t want to buy it your local library probably has a copy.

[Strassia]

@Wesley_Clark

As far as the placebo effect, I’ve read some stories about people with multiple personality disorder (DID) and there are stories of people who had one personality that was diabetic and another personality that wasn’t, and depending on which personality was in charge would change how the body reacted to sugar. Or stories about people’s eye color changing based on which personality was in charge.

http://www.nytimes.com/1985/05/21/science/new-focus-on-multiple-personality.html

So, the main point has been covered very well. Natural history (the normal progression of a condition or illness), true placebo effect (lessening of pain due to endorphin release), selection bias along with actual fraud.

Your article above is woefully out of date. Most data shows that there is no such thing as multiples. Dissociative identity disorders do not work like that. Even the multiple personalities of the famous Sybil turned out to be the result of suggestions by her therapist. After the book, multiple personalities started turning up everywhere.

A Girl Not Named Sybil (Published 2011)

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/10/24/was-sybil-faking-multiple-personalities/

The 16 Personalities of Sybil

[BrainGlutton]

@Wesley_Clark

So with all these faith healers operating, how exactly did they do what they did?

Same way they do it today, only without the earpieces.

[Tapioca_Dextrin]

You don’t even need the placebo effect or sleight of hand.

Take 100 really sick people and wave your magic wand. The 7 who are still alive after a week will be proclaiming you to be a miracle worker.

[BrianJ]

@Tapioca_Dextrin

You don’t even need the placebo effect or sleight of hand.

Take 100 really sick people and wave your magic wand. The 7 who are still alive after a week will be proclaiming you to be a miracle worker.

This.

Considering they thought back then that demons caused illness, just going through the motions of ‘exorsizing’ a demon and waiting til the person got better would be convincing. Hell, the faith healers probably thought it really worked as well for all we know.

[Razncain]

I too, would recommend James Randi’s The Faith Healers. I believe the Benjamin Franklin quote is also in there:“Quacks are the biggest liars in the world, next to their patients.” Human nature has an infinite supply for it. Quacks love to claim many things, and having an abundant supply of patients willing to give testimonials, especially when the spotlight is on them is what is expected. The power of suggestion can play a part. Ancient faith healers were the greatest by far, because their miracle stories get embellished as time goes on. The gospels of Jesus were written many, many decades after the supposed events.

Take today’s faith healer. His people are handing out wheelchairs to the elderly who seem to have a bit of trouble walking. The audience doesn’t know they could walk a little bit. Prayer cards are also handed out, in which a great deal of information is already being fed to the faith healer through various means.

Here is how a modern day faith healer does it. Set it to music, add dramatic flair, edit, and you get a production like this.

[The_Other_Waldo_Pepper]

@Wesley_Clark

So with all these faith healers operating, how exactly did they do what they did? Did they use hypnosis and the power of suggestion to help people temporarily overcome their illness? Did they select people who were just acting, or something else?

IIRC, it’s been proposed that psychosomatic illnesses in general – and hysterical conversion syndromes in particular – abound in repressive times that are big on shame-slinging religions built around constantly provoking feelings of guilt.

So that’s maybe why Freud could make so big a splash circa the Victorian era – the ‘talking cure’ was pretty much just assuring folks of confidentiality, listening nonjudgmentally as they confess their darkest secrets, convincing 'em to relax as the the valid authority figure says he can make them all better – at which point the limb that couldn’t move CAN MOVE, or the hysterical blindness IS GONE, AND I CAN SEE THE LIGHT, or whatever.

So take a really stressed-out and superstitious guy who spent a lifetime believing his sin let in an illness-causing demon, and – well, look, you ask whether faith healing back then was hypnosis and suggestion; I’d say (a) maybe yes, especially if (b) maybe that’s where the faith ailment came from to begin with; placebos are good against real stuff, but they’re fantastic against imaginary ones.

[septimus]

I refer the Honorable Doper to the answer(s) given in earlier thread(s), e.g.

@septimus

… Jesus was an extremely charismatic healer, probably using some method of hypnosis. (Read about Dr. Albert Abraham Mason’s famous cure of ichthyosis for an example of how astounding hypnotic cures can be.) In those days … people were, in general, more easily hypnotized, and psychosomatic illnesses were not uncommon.

Note that not only the cure, but the psychosomatic illness itself, can be caused by forms of hypnosis or self-hypnosis.

(I do note that link quoted above has now become pay-for-view…)

[lekatt]

I don’t think faith healing has changed any since ancient times. I am sure some healers are wannabees while others can actually get the job done.

There are two elements of spiritual healing. One is faith or the placebo effect and the other is the use of energy or vitality. Usually both of these come into play in tandem in the typical healing event. The most effective is energy, spiritual energy. We are basically energy and this energy passes through us all the time. Healing takes place when a person with an excess of energy encounters a person with low energy and a transfer takes place. We have all known people who drain us when we are around them and others that can energize us. Some people know and can feel this energy and use it to help others.

Jesus was a good example. He used both methods usually saying “your faith has made you whole.”" On one occasion Jesus was touched by a woman with issue. He turned around and said “who touched me, I felt the vitality leave me.” So basically that is the 101 course in healing.

[running_coach]

@lekatt

I don’t think faith healing has changed any since ancient times. I am sure some healers are wannabees while others can actually get the job done.

There are two elements of spiritual healing. One is faith or the placebo effect and the other is the use of energy or vitality. Usually both of these come into play in tandem in the typical healing event. The most effective is energy, spiritual energy. We are basically energy and this energy passes through us all the time. Healing takes place when a person with an excess of energy encounters a person with low energy and a transfer takes place. We have all known people who drain us when we are around them and others that can energize us. Some people know and can feel this energy and use it to help others.

Jesus was a good example. He used both methods usually saying “your faith has made you whole.”" On one occasion Jesus was touched by a woman with issue. He turned around and said “who touched me, I felt the vitality leave me.” So basically that is the 101 course in healing.

You’re wrong. One is placebo, the other is sheer fakery.

[Der_Trihs]

@lekatt

I don’t think faith healing has changed any since ancient times. I am sure some healers are wannabees while others can actually get the job done.

Nope. There’s two kinds: Some are frauds, and some are deluded. There are certainly none at all with actual magic powers. :rolleyes:

[Musicat]

Psychic surgery hasn’t changed since it was first invented. It was a trick then, it’s a trick now.

[Czarcasm]

@lekatt

I don’t think faith healing has changed any since ancient times. I am sure some healers are wannabees while others can actually get the job done.

There are two elements of spiritual healing. One is faith or the placebo effect and the other is the use of energy or vitality. Usually both of these come into play in tandem in the typical healing event. The most effective is energy, spiritual energy. We are basically energy and this energy passes through us all the time. Healing takes place when a person with an excess of energy encounters a person with low energy and a transfer takes place. We have all known people who drain us when we are around them and others that can energize us. Some people know and can feel this energy and use it to help others.

Jesus was a good example. He used both methods usually saying “your faith has made you whole.”" On one occasion Jesus was touched by a woman with issue. He turned around and said “who touched me, I felt the vitality leave me.” So basically that is the 101 course in healing.

1. Name one modern day “faith healer” that “gets the job done”.
2. As far as any claims about Jesus are concerned, well…let’s just say the Bible could have used a fact checker.