How did the Democratic Party blow this election as badly as they did? How??

[spectrum]

@Mirasawa

Thanks. That some good speculation and nice package of blame that doesn’t include San Francisco mayors defying the law handing out marriage licenses, and Massachusetts judges employing the last way for liberals to get their ideas implemented.

First of all, Rove’s march to put the issue on ballots began well before any of that. Second, when the State Constitution of Massachusetts requires that all laws treat people equally regardless of sexual orientation, and the state’s marriage law specifically treats people differently based on sexual orientation, what precisely is your argument that the Court acted wrongly?

Maybe not the white house for a generation, but the Congress was controlled by the Democrats for two generations so it’s not pure fantasy.

The Democrats won’t control the House until at least 2013. The Senate is another matter. The losses this year had much more to do with LBJ than with the second JFK.

Also, though there’s not many presidents during a generation, the Republicans have recently been more successful in getting that.

In the post-Watergate period, there’s been one narrow Democratic win (1976), one narrow Republican win (2004), three large Republican wins (1980, 1984, 1988), two solid Democratic wins (1992, 1996) and one effective tie which went to the Republicans based on technicalities. How is that a strong Republican advantage?

Plus the supreme court doesn’t turn over much and it looks like some will finally step down.

So long as Ruth Bader Ginsberg doesn’t step down, Bush can only replace a hardcore conservative (Reinquist) and a moderate conservative (O’Connor), not altering the balance of the Court much.

His documentary was accepted as truth by a large number of people, foreign and domestic.

It was a documentary, which is a film about a factual subject matter done in a specific style. That doesn’t make it media, nor does having a lot of people accept it as “truth,” unless you consider the Bible to be part of the “media.”

Because it was an October surprise, meant to air on 60 minutes on Oct 31st. Not meant to influence the election? Ha.

That didn’t happen. It was a solid story, and it broke earlier than 60 minutes hoped for. As for 60 Minutes breaking it on Oct. 31… that was the night the show airs. What are they supposed to do, air on a special night?

She, her views, and her books were featured on the Today show and what not. She’s not a Bush supporter, for sure. The other end of the spectrum, say… Swift Boat Veterans… had to use Fox and talk radio.

God, you live in a dream world. The Swift Boat Liars were ALL OVER the media, CNN, MSNBC, Fox and regular TV alike, to say nothing about the places where smart folks get their news – the Internet and newspapers. The Swift Boat Liars had no trouble finding media exposure, and were largely unchallenged on their spurious allegations throughout most of August.

Kitty Kelly was a blip on the radar for about a half a week, and was not treated seriously by anyone. She’s long been a laughingstock.

[Liberal]

@capacitor

spectrum and others, if you keep on saying that the evangelicals are ‘knuckle dragging bigots’, guess what? You will never get to convince them of the virtues of your ideas, and they in turn, will work a lot more feverishly, but more subtly, to insure that your ideas won’t become policy. And as they keep on growing in power in matters of policymaking, they will be more able to tune the likes of you out without any fear of reprisal.

We used to call it biting one’s nose to spite one’s face.

[John_Mace]

@Liberal

We used to call it biting one’s nose to spite one’s face.

Biting? I think it’s “cutting off”. How does one bite ones own nose?

[Hazel]

Following up on my earlier post (shown below). Here’s a link. This isn’t one of the articles I mentioned, but the data is relevant.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041115&s=alterman
Faith-based Journalism: The Refs Work Themselves
column by Eric Alterman in The Nation

Short quote from column: “As a recent study by the University of Maryland’s Program on International Policy Attitudes demonstrates, even after the final report of Charles Duelfer, demonstrating the complete absence of any WMD program in Iraq, 72 percent of Bush supporters operate in ignorance, and believe Iraq had actual WMD (47 percent) or a major development program (25 percent). No less disturbing, 75 percent of Bush supporters believe Iraq was providing significant support to Al Qaeda, and 63 percent are under the impression that we have discovered evidence to support that contention. A mere 31 percent of Bush supporters are aware that most of the world continues to oppose the US invasion of Iraq, with 42 percent assuming an evenly divided global opinion and more than a quarter believing that the rest of the planet approves.”

@Hazel

I have to agree that some Bush voters were gullible and unthinking.

> The ones who think that WMDs were found in Iraq, and/or that Saddam was involved in the 9/11 attack. (Saw an article months ago headlined “It’s Official. Half of Us are Morons”. Said about 1/2 the country believed one or both of these things.)

> The ones who think that there’s no proof that that big cache of explosives was not looted before we got there. (Recent press release from FAIR took media to task for failing to make the weapons cache story clear.)

> The ones who think that Kerry actually did “vote to raise taxes (however many times)”. (Factcheck.org debunks this charge.)

> The ones who disagree with Bush on significant issues, but mistakenly think his stands are the same as theirs. (I wish I could remember where I saw this article. It said that when Bush supporters were polled on the issues, it was discovered that a significant number believed his stands on several issues were what they preferred – when they were not.)

[Hazel]

And here’s the Fact Check article I mentioned:

http://www.factcheck.org/article247.html
Bush Still Fudging the Numbers on Kerry’s Tax Votes
Short quote: “The Bush campaign also exploits the complexity of the parliamentary voting system to pad the number. Most of the 98 votes were on procedural measures, such as votes to end debate or votes on amendments, and not on passage of the measure itself. More than once, the 98-vote total counts half a dozen votes or more on on a single bill.”

[Hazel]

And here’s the FAIR article I mentioned:

http://www.fair.org/press-releases/missing-explosives.html
MEDIA ADVISORY:
Missing the Evidence on Missing Explosives
Reports ignore videotapes that debunk administration claims

[MEBuckner]

@spectrum

Then you are a bigot, and I wish I knew you so I could kick you in your redneck-supported face.

Moderator’s Note: Stop it right now. Don’t take it to the Pit–even in the Pit threats of physical violence are beyond the pale.

[Abbie_Carmichael]

@spectrum

Then you are a bigot, and I wish I knew you so I could kick you in your redneck-supported face.

Then you’re no better than the lowlifes who killed Matthew Shepard.

[ExTank]

And another example of why the Democrats lost.

“The KKK supports Bush. I don’t know this for fact, but I believe it to be true.”

[Bricker]

I’ve posted this link in a couple of threads, and at the risk of seeming to spam, here’s another plug for it. I found it very relevent to the question of how the Democrats blew the election as badly as they did.

http://fromasadamerican.blogspot.com/2004/11/how-you-could-have-had-my-vote.html

[Mirasawa]

@Bricker

I’ve posted this link in a couple of threads, and at the risk of seeming to spam, here’s another plug for it. I found it very relevent to the question of how the Democrats blew the election as badly as they did.

http://fromasadamerican.blogspot.com/2004/11/how-you-could-have-had-my-vote.html

Not bad. I liked that well-educated guy who is still … a hunter… who got pushed into the Bush camp by Kerry’s condescending dead goose photo op. I had forgotten about that incident.

Democrats need to write that one down. Don’t do something like that for a photo op. It doesn’t help one bit.
_
_

[Liberal]

@John Mace

Biting? I think it’s “cutting off”. How does one bite ones own nose?

With Southern expressions, all things are possible.

[Monocracy]

@Bricker

I’ve posted this link in a couple of threads, and at the risk of seeming to spam, here’s another plug for it. I found it very relevent to the question of how the Democrats blew the election as badly as they did.

http://fromasadamerican.blogspot.com/2004/11/how-you-could-have-had-my-vote.html

(Speaking about the original blogger in the link):

i mentioned this type of Bush-voter in post #132:

@Monocracy

1. Republicans have a core of hard-working blue-collar men who by most accounts should be Democrat. They work hard for their money and they don’t take government handouts (none that you can see). They don’t like the idea of welfare recipients driving their Cadillacs from their mansion to the liquor store every day [hyperbole]. While the issue of welfare is debatable, many of these men make it too much of a single issue, and find themselves loathing Democrats.

She didn’t quite make it a single issue, but add a splash of terrified xenophobia, and you have a solid Republican. Everything else she mentioned was window dressing.

I don’t want the Democrats to back down from these issues, and i believe Kerry tried to. The problem is that Republicans didn’t believe him and Democrats felt betrayed.