How did Uri Geller (psychic) divine pictures people had written?

[Gary_Robson]

@DrFidelius

I think that “puffery” is a word that people are looking for here, and an agreement as to where advertising and promotional puffery becomes fraud.

Claiming that my candy bar is all-natural and the best-tasting candy bar every created in the history of the world is puffery.

Claiming that I can perform a magic trick better than David Copperfield is puffery.

Accepting money for performing telekinesis or dowsing is fraud.

[x-ray_vision]

@Peter_Morris

The thing he is selling is entertainment. Claiming it as something real is just part of the show.

Yet you’ve said that people that even claim to have assisted the police in solving crimes are lowlifes and Geller has never done that. You’ve been shown that he has, more than once. You obviously don’t think that’s just selling entertainment. Do you now believe Geller is a lowlife?

[Cheshire_Human]

@Peter_Morris

Look, just consider Houdini. He sold the public on the idea that he could escape from handcuffs and various traps through having extraordinary skills at causing locks to open, and so on.

In reality, he was a magician performing tricks. He couldn’t really open handcuffs.

Actually, he could really open handcuffs. I was a big Houdini fan as a kid. I got myself a pair of handcuffs, and read up on how he did his tricks. I could do some of his handcuff tricks, and they involved my developing skills at opening handcuffs.

Example fail.

[TriPolar]

[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:199, topic:652260”]

In reality, Harry Houdini was quite skilled at picking locks.
[/QUOTE]

He was skilled at picking locks, but most of his escapes were rigged, it’s just show biz.

The difference here is that he did not make the kind of positive assertions of supernatural abilities that Geller did, and apparently still does. It’s not a matter of showmanship in Geller’s case, he actively promotes the concept of psychic ability and that he has psychic ability, outside the framework of his act. Entertainment is usually based on falsehoods, but within the context of suspension of disbelief. Geller claims to have psychic abilities, in and out of his act, while clearly knowing he has none. He’s the Lance Armstrong of magic, denying the obvious in the face of overwhelming evidence, and like Armstrong he has his fanboys.

[Mr.Miskatonic]

@Floater

As it seems I’m allowed to bring this up again.
This is straight from the horses mouth (and passed through my memory): What Randi said is that he had learnt how to bend spoons(? might have been some other trick, though) from the back of a cereal packet when he was a child in Toronto. Geller promptly wanted him to produce one such box and sued him when he couldn’t. At least this is what Randi has said in my presence.

But later such a box was apparently produced:

From the article Cuckoos and Cocoa Puffs

“If I needed any kind of
information, all I had to do was get on-line,” says Randi. “For
example, look at the Cocoa Puffs box.” Randi had been fishing
around for an example of a trick printed on the back of a cereal
box. He decided to find out if anyone in cyberspace could help.
“I just said, ‘Anybody got any examples?,’ and this guy replied
that he had a friend in California who collects cereal boxes as a
hobby,” says Randi. “The guy immediately came up with a photocopy
of [a trick on the back of] a Cocoa Puffs box and said he would
send me the original box if I needed it. Bang! Just like that.
I got my answer within 48 hours. And I got so many offers from
lawyers all over, offering help with references and so forth.”

[Peter_Morris]

[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:199, topic:652260”]

You know that’s not what we’re talking about here, Peter.
[/quote]

Yes it is.
[/quote]

In reality, Harry Houdini was quite skilled at picking locks.

cite?

That’s the legend he put about, but in fact his escapes were conjuring tricks. He didn’t *need *lock picking skill to achieve them.

[Peter_Morris]

@Cheshire_Human

Actually, he could really open handcuffs. I was a big Houdini fan as a kid. I got myself a pair of handcuffs, and read up on how he did his tricks. I could do some of his handcuff tricks, and they involved my developing skills at opening handcuffs.

Example fail.

I’m an amateur magician myself. I know how some of Houdini’s escapes worked. And they don’t need lock picks.

[TriPolar]

@Peter_Morris

That’s the legend he put about, but in fact his escapes were conjuring tricks. He didn’t *need *lock picking skill to achieve them.

As I mentioned already, most of his escapes were rigged. It would be pointless to pick a lock that he had supplied, he would just have the key, or in some cases there was a release mechanism.

Most of what we know about Houdini is anecdotal, usually his own anecdotes, but there seems to be sufficient evidence that he was skilled at picking locks. He collected locks in various forms and even allowing for the inaccuracies of storytelling he would appear to have been skilled and knowledgeable about locks and could probably pick them as well as anyone.

Do you have any evidence that he was not a master of picking locks even if it was not how he usually performed his act?

[Czarcasm]

@Peter_Morris

That’s the legend he put about, but in fact his escapes were conjuring tricks. He didn’t *need *lock picking skill to achieve them.

Don’t even try to tell us that the man who wrote Handcuff Secrets in 1909 wasn’t an expert lock picker.

[x-ray_vision]

@Czarcasm

Don’t even try to tell us that the man who wrote Handcuff Secrets in 1909 wasn’t an expert lock picker.

You beat me to it:

In “Handcuff Secrets,” a book he published in 1910 to discourage the legion of imitators trying to ride his coattails, Houdini wrote that “you can open the majority of the old-time cuffs with a shoestring. By simply making a loop in the string, you can lasso the end of the screw in the lock and yank the bolt back, and so open the cuff in as clean a manner as if opened with the original key.” And as he demonstrated in his own defense during the slander trial in Germany in 1902, some cuffs could be opened simply by banging them against a hard surface, which might include a lead plate fastened at the knee under his trousers.

Escape Secrets | American Experience | PBS

Handcuff Secrets by Harry Houdini

[Czarcasm]

He also wrote two books exposing frauds like Geller: Miracle Mongers and their Methods: an Exposé by Harry Houdini and A Magician Among the Spirits.

[Drunky_Smurf]

@Peter_Morris

Yes it is.

No it isn’t.
[/quote]

That’s just you moving the goalposts and then claiming that is what was being discussed all along.

[Peter_Morris]

Ianzin has written a book exposing cold readers. But he is friends with Uri Geller.
When most magicians, and most sceptics see Uri Geller, they say “What a clever magic act.” I have no doubt that Houdini would have been the same. You do him a disservice4 by claiming he would side with you.

[Czarcasm]

@Peter_Morris

Ianzin has written a book exposing cold readers. But he is friends with Uri Geller.
When most magicians, and most sceptics see Uri Geller, they say “What a clever magic act.” I have no doubt that Houdini would have been the same. You do him a disservice4 by claiming he would side with you.

Have you read Houdini’s books about frauds like Geller? I have.

[x-ray_vision]

Peter, do you now believe Geller is a lowlife? You claim to have answered but you haven’t. Please answer with a yes or no.

[Peter_Morris]

@Czarcasm

Have you read Houdini’s books about frauds like Geller? I have.

Houdini didn’t write a book about frauds like Geller.

He wrote about frauds that are completely unlike Geller.
Try and understand that there is a difference between someone performing tricks on stage, and the mediums that Houdini exposed.

[x-ray_vision]

@Peter_Morris

Try and understand that there is a difference between someone performing tricks on stage, and the mediums that Houdini exposed.

You’re forgetting many of the things mentioned about Geller in this thread, including that he has made claims which you think are the type lowlifes make.

[Peter_Morris]

@x-ray_vision

Peter, do you now believe Geller is a lowlife? You claim to have answered but you haven’t. Please answer with a yes or no.

please try to understand. It is not a black/ white yes/ no answer, but a shade of gray in between.

My previous answer specifies the shade of gray.

You keep harassing me, but the answer has been given.

[Peter_Morris]

@x-ray_vision

You’re forgetting many of the things mentioned about Geller in this thread

Many of the things claimed about Geller in this thread are wildly inaccurate bits of bullshit.

[x-ray_vision]

You didn’t give the answer. Now I assume you’re saying that he’s kind of a lowlife?