Uri Geller and spoons?

I just finished watching An Honest Liar, recommend it, about The Amazing Randi. Of course portions of it focused on his debunking Uri Geller repeatedly but I kept wondering why people asked Geller to bend a spoon to ‘prove’ his psychic abilities, Why didn’t anyone ask him to bend some rebar or railroad spike, something that wouldn’t be easy to fake?

Also, why didn’t anyone ask the attendees at Peter Popoff’s service’s why they were so surprised at Popoff knowing their names, addresses and ailments when they had filled out questionnaires beforehand the show?

Well, if he were able to bend so much as a broomstraw with his mind, that would really be something spectacular. The problem isn’t that spoons are easy to bend. The problem is that Geller was fraudulently pretending to bend them with his mind, when he was really using his fingers in a sneaky way.

Yeah, bending rebar would be harder to fake…but supposing the effect were real, but very weak? Suppose someone could levitate a feather, but not, say, a full can of soda, let alone a car. It would still be really remarkable and wonderful.

ETA: re people not asking cogent questions, it’s sad but true that people are very easily misled. I once had a sleight-of-hand artist do some really incredible things, right in front of my face…and only later, when he explained one or two of the tricks, did I realize how much they depended on me being a very poor observer. When people in Popoff’s audience are completely taken in, it’s pretty much just human nature. We’re very bad at independent reasoning, as a species.

Heck, I would have been impressed if Geller could flatten the spoon, rather than just “melt” it at the thinnest part of its neck.

In this thread, skeptics like myself asked similar questions about Geller and got insults from Geller-proponents for our trouble.

Because people like Geller and Popoff are really entertainers and it’s no fun spoiling their act. Reality is, most people don’t believe in their powers. Most people aren’t up in arms about other illusionists or magicians either.

The debunkers are merely humourless people who take entertainment way way to seriously in my opinion. No one that I ever encountered ever took Geller seriously and I hung out in the professional psychic scene in the '70s ( mom was in the scene during that time and I was a kid ). He was always viewed as an entertainer. I’d be shocked if the mainstream public took him more seriously than his target audience who attached themselves to other psychics who never had mainstream acceptance thus never made the big talk shows.

Randi has made a cool little career out of his debunking gig and I think overall he performs a valuable public service but his debunking of Geller to me is trivial. It’s not hard going after such the lowest hanging fruit in a bowl of low hanging fruit.

So, what you’re saying is that Geller never truly presented himself as an authentic psychokinetic, yes?

Uri Geller and Spoons?

Not sure where that idea came from; I’ve never met him. :wink:

Not at all. I’m saying that he was not widely viewed as an authentic psychokinetic not that he never presented himself as one. Taking his powers seriously is an integral part of the act. Professional wrestlers presented themselves as authentic as well but really no one believed that they were which was proven once they dropped the act and the genre didn’t die. People just didn’t care. They like being entertained.

Oh, get bent! :wink:

I’d describe it more as misdirection capitalizing on human psychology than necessarily being a poor observer.

People didn’t ask Geller to bend spoons, they paid to watch him do it. Geller never accepted real challenges because he knew he had no psychic ability. Unlike some con artists he didn’t even think he could fool the experts.

Are you saying he was a con artist here or an entertainer in a field full of con artists?

I can’t see how someone getting people to pay to see him perform makes someone a con artist or every actor ever is a con artist. Is Tobe Hooper a con artist because he said that the Texas Chainsaw Massacre was based on a true story?

It sounds like it this may be what you meant since neither of them expected to fool the experts either but again I can’t tell.

I don’t think performing in general is a con. I believe that there are real con artists out there and I think putting him in this category would be false. What he did which was bad was enabled all the real con artists by lowering the disbelief in psychic powers in general and raising their profile so the con runners were granted a sheen of believability though the industry is as ancient as the bible. That’s what I found wrong with Uri, not that he was purposely running a scam himself. He was earning a living putting butts in the seats like any other performer.

Maybe he was a scam though, I only know of him as a performer, maybe he fleeced people off stage and if he did, then my opinion of him will change. There was no internet in those days and I haven’t thought about the guy in ages.

There’s an easy way to tell the difference between con-artists bilking people out of their money vs. magicians getting paid to entertain people. Con-artists don’t call themselves magicians.

I don’t know much about the professional psychic scene, but I’ve known a number of people who would assign a “Maybe” to the antics of 1970s talk show psychics like Geller.

I also met a travel agent from Brazil who used Geller as an example of someone with ESP. (I told him, no, regardless of whether ESP exists or not that guy was not bending spoons.)
Cecil wrote about the great spoon bender; I think it’s fair to say that in 1988 a number of people believed in Geller. How did Uri Geller bend spoons? - The Straight Dope

Incidentally, I bend spoons as well. It’s a nice trick.

If it actually wasn’t, and he lied just to promote the book/movie/whatever, then, yeah, a little. Carlos Castaneda was a con artist. Nearly anyone who tries to market fiction as fact is conning us.

He is a con artist because he claimed to have psychic powers. It wasn’t some simple aside in his act, he made the specific claim that he had actual psychic powers.

The Texas Chainsaw Massacre was based on a true story. ‘Based on’ does not mean that it was a true story, only that there was a true story and then he created a work of fiction using that as a starting point.

Uri Geller once bent my brother’s fork. Which sucked, because it was a special fork and replacing it was pain in the neck.

Easy, yes. Reality, sadly no.

There’s an easy way to tell the difference between fiction and fact. Fact is never simple or easy.

Or said better by one wiser than myself, “Truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense.”

By your definition anyone calling themselves illusionists are con artists as they don’t call themselves magicians. Ditto actors or any other performers who get paid by the performance.

Your ‘easy’ brush is way to broad but of course your use of poisoned verbs pretty much doesn’t show a deep contemplation about the issue.

Also, many people I knew in the craft weren’t con artists per se. They believed what they did was legitimate. Self delusion can really be strong.

Then there was me. As a teen I made money reading Tarot cards at psychic fairs. I was extremely popular. I considered it entertainment and the amount of money I made per reading would be chump change for people who came to a psychic “fair” to be entertained.

I considered myself an entertainer and a damned good advice giver. I didn’t call it cold reading as I’d never heard the term but I was a very good cold reader and I knew that this was what I used to create my act. My goal wasn’t to con anyone. It mattered not whether they liked my show or not, they’d already paid their money. My struggle was to perform in a way to earn that money that they had paid. I was quite sincere about that.

Now, a few years later I worked for two days on a 900 tarot line. I made good cash. On the second day I decided to quit. Not because I was failing but because I had a woman keep me on the phone for 90 minutes. This was at 4.99 a minute. I tried to close the call but she needed someone to talk to and didn’t want to stop.

Once I was finished I felt dirty. I felt that at that level of cash I’d entered into the con man zone and I wasn’t comfortable operating in that space. I hadn’t felt that I had any right, even as an advice guy to charge such outrageous rates. The woman was in pain and a $500 phone bill was going to make it worse. I understood that this was wrong. This was my last brush with con artistry.

I never called myself a magician though. I called myself what I was, a tarot card reader, I also explained to anyone who asked ( damned few TBH )exactly what I was doing even explaining that what I said the cards meant were not what the textbook definition of them was. It never mattered. They wanted to believe in the entertainment. They wanted it to be real.

The only way I was a con artist is if I was conning both the audience and myself and worse I was conning myself that I was the exact opposite of what I was conning people into thinking that I was.

I can assure you, that I’m not that good of a con man nor would I be comfortable being so. Like I said, reality is never easy.

Then wrestlers were clearly con artists ( pre Kayfabe ) and I don’t believe that at all. Wrestlers went to extremes to claim that their shows were real. Bad guys couldn’t even be seen with good guys lest they break the fiction.

I just don’t see competing for entertainment dollars is a con game. Taking grandma’s inheritance because you have the power to cure her and you don’t, that’s what I consider a con. Not selling tickets to your show.

Also, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre was not based one drop on a true story. Nothing like the story ever occured. They gave the bad guy a single trait similar to a real villian who did nothing close to what happened in the movie. The only thing based on reality was leatherface wearing human skins which wasn’t even an important part of the movie.

Sorry, by your definition, Tobe was a con artist.

Then practically everyone is a con artist. If you enhance your resume to get a job then you’re a con artist. If this is true then the term is so general that it has no real meaning.

Of course, you may say exaggerating isn’t lying but it absolutely isn’t telling the truth and is a fiction based on reality.

I tried but no spoon bending for me. I could never pull it off.

Ask the people in 1988 would they bet their life/life’s fortune on him being legit and see how many bite. I’m betting extremely few. It’s more fun to believe that’s why they say maybe but when the rubber hits the asphalt they know better.

Con artists however absolutely have people risking these things for them. Major difference.

I noticed you titled your post “Look, it’s still bending”. What are you implying here?