Well, parts of Texas showed (even Rick Perry out of all people helped on that effort) that it is in the self interest of the people to develop solar and wind power.
In Kansas, even with the lack of help the new industries are getting they do look at the long view, and it is not just the long view of climate change.
But most important is the realization that as you always like to point out, things like pulling out of the PA are things that while they are depending on the whim or ignorance of Trump they are indeed whims that are not likely to remain in place for long.
If wind and solar really are economic winners, then you have nothing to fear. Sit back, relax, and let capitalism do the rest. No need for an accord in Paris or Kyoto or anywhere else, the invisible hand will take care of it.
Generally that’s my preferred approach. Maybe we could work on eliminating federal subsidies and tax breaks as part of the Republicans tax reform effort.
I’ll be on the other side of that battle, as I like things like public education, police, fire and public health services.
Will you also fight a reduction in services? If the state cuts funding to your local schools, or cuts funding to your police and fire, or reduces the maintenance on your roads and bridges, will those be fine with you, or will you be upset that these services are being reduced?
Not sure about that. I am a bit more pessimistic about how people will react when they are told that they need to lay down and die. That is something that is not taken into account in climate data.
I have said that it is unlikely, I am just saying that it is not so unreasonably likely that we should just discount it altogether, or to chide those who take pessimistic positions on the outcome of global warming as though they are woefully misinformed.
I am also saying that it is far more likely that these doomsday scenarios come to pass than the “everything will be fine” scenarios that your side is pushing, whether it be due to the chinese perpetuation a hoax, or god’s promise to clean up our mess, or trump’s promise that if your island has been there for hundreds of years, it will be there for hundreds of years more.
These are the people who are denying the reality of climate change entirely and are actually the ones making policy and law. These are the people who will actually make a difference in whether or not we respond effectively to the threats in front of us. I have yet to see you denounce these truly poorly informed positions of those you have voted for or those who were voted for by those of your ideological side.
Fair enough, I understand that, I think of anyone under 30 as a kid anymore. I was picturing, however, a much smaller actual child in the exchange.
So, a “kid” in his 20’s or so, being pessimistic about the options in his future. A future of which he has no control, but is talking to one of the people who actually does have influence. Maybe it was hyperbole, maybe it was sincere belief, but your response to him isn’t that everything will be fine, your response would be “No, humanity will not be wiped out, you will probably be among the survivors. We will simply need to change our life style massively in order to survive the new paradigm, and count ourselves lucky that we were not among the hundreds of millions who died in rather unpleasant ways.”
It’s as if I tell a smoker that smoking will kill them. And they respond that I am hyperbolic because only a small fraction of smokers die from lung cancer.
There’s short sighted selfish self interest, and then there is long term, enlightened self interest. When we talk about people voting against their own best interests, it is usually taking into account both of those. For instance, an ex-coal minor who is on ACA or medicaid. If he votes for the republican, they are not going to bring his job back, he is going to have difficulty getting retrained for a new job in another industry with the republicans cutting $350million on the funding for the Appalachian Regional Commission, if he does manage to get a coal job, it’ll be at lower pay with fewer safety regulations, and he will not have health insurance. All outcomes, both short term and long term, both personal and community wide are poorer under the policies espoused by the republicans. That is what we mean when we say they are voting against their best interests.
By voting for people who will do something to help to ameliorate climate change, I may be voting against my personal extremely short term best interest. If I was all about “Me, me, me, now, now, now!” I would vote differently, I would vote for the politician that told me that he was going to give me what I want, regardless of the consequences to others or to the future. I might manage to save a couple of bucks a year on my taxes in exchange for living in a much poorer country and world. Doesn’t seem a good deal.
But there is more to self interest than personal extremely short term interest. I want to live in a country that I can be proud of, that treats its citizens well, provides education and opportunities for even the least among us, that takes its leadership role in the world seriously, that helps to safeguard and provide stewardship over the limited resources. This is in my self interest, as even though I don’t have kids, I do have nieces and nephews that share enough genetic similarity to myself that I can more or less assume them as a legacy. Failing even that, I consider humanity as a whole as a species worth protecting and advancing.
Being among the survivors, when you could have prevented the catastrophe in the first place, is not what I consider to be a good outcome of self interest.
Because when the crazy man on the radio lies to you about a pizza place running a pedophile ring in their basement, and you go and shoot up the place, at some point you can’t blame the crazy man. Alex Jones didn’t get Trump elected. The millions of fucking duncecaps who listen to him did. Culpability lies, ultimately, with the voter. I saw through those lies. The majority of the electorate saw through most of them. Why couldn’t they? What’s so goddamn hard about it?
The truly perverse part here is that the people who need to fix this mess are the people with no clear incentive or ability to do so.
And here you only show that you did not learn one important lesson from all the scientists and economists. Government is a big piece of the solution puzzle that will get us there sooner rather than later…
…and it will be late and then more costly to all with Trump and minions at the helm.
You are also missing the evidence that shows that, even when it is not really a benefit for the whole of America nor the states that are involved, Trump and minions are using the government to pick the winners and losers in this issue.
This sounds like you’re saying that wind and solar aren’t economical yet, that they need government subsidies to be competitive. Am I misunderstanding you?
Except that it seems like a fair number of Conservatives have now decided that the fossil fuel industry represents Conservative values while the renewable energy industry represents Liberal values. So instead of a reasonable conversation about how we perform a controlled transition from a fossil fuel based economy to one based on renewable energy, it becomes more about picking “sides” like they are watching the Red Sox play the Yankees.
“You do your best, you try to serve the people, and then they just fuck you over. And you know why? Because they’re ignorant, and they’re dumb as shit. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is democracy.”
-President Selena Meyer, Veep
As usual you are getting it backwards, coal and other fossil fuels are becoming less competitive, Besides that,the evidence still points to our need to reduce emissions. Solar and wind are competitive indeed (you did not read the Kansas cite?) but the situation right now** is just about even** because of the costs to bring solar power facilities into the grid.
The point here is clear, we need the government to help solar a bit to accelerate the change and reduce the chances of bad scenarios becoming reality.
Doing the very stupid thing that Trump is doing by facilitating coal is not what we all should be doing.
Really, what we got by electing Trump was a government that right now is being shaped to be a benefit just for the robber barons, by robber barons.
John Oliver? The comedian? Seriously? Do people actually accept the humorous, funny, twisted, biased, crude jokes and stories comedians tell to their target audiences as unquestionable facts?
Little wonder a thread was started asking “How Did We Become Bitter Political Enemies?” If some people actually chose to get their “news” from comedians, those people are probably already beyond reason.
And if you believe the republican party will actually do that, you are part of the problem.
Well, it doesn’t help that their main competition has extremely costly and dangerous externalities that they don’t have to worry about. When we refuse to factor in the cost of CO2 pollution to the environment, it’s the equivalent of the government giving a massive subsidy to the fossil fuel industry.
I’m a conservative, but I don’t feel that way. I’d love for solar panels to provide an easy and cheap alternative to paying my power bill every month. I just don’t think they do yet, in reality. It’d be great if Tesla makes solar roof shingles that are cheaper and better than traditional roofing (even greater if they did it without government subsidies). I just don’t think they are yet. Most conservatives I know think along those lines too, but I can’t claim that my personal contacts represent more than a tiny fraction of conservatives. Where are you getting “a fair number of Conservatives” from? Personal acquaintances? Your interactions on the Internet? Public polling? Extrapolating from election results? Do you think that your post about ‘a fair number’ of conservatives represents the dominant opinion on the right? A majority viewpoint? A minority? A fringe element?
Not if coal and oil and other fossil fuels are subsidized by the govt.
And they must be. They require land, specific land that has coal or oil under it in order to function. You were excited that Bear’s Ear was being rededicated to be developed for oil and gas drilling. This is a give away from the govt to the oil and gas industry.
Would you have been as excited about it if it were to be given away for solar or wind power?