Yes, chula. I obviously meant “pronunciation” as the following dictionary (pick a way to pronounce that, if you will) shows is one of the meanings (look that one up yourself) for the sequence (that one also) of speech (and that one, whilst you’re about it) sounds in question:
Apparently, it’s escaped you that the written word and the spoken word aren’t exactly the same thing. The written word, for example, may have more than one pronunciation attached to it. On the other hand, a particular pronunciation may have only one particular pronunciation.
For cite, I’m just going to have to go with my experience in this locality and others where I’ve lived before. Maybe by the time I get my degree in Linguistics (my major at university, actually), I can do some research on the subject.
I lived in Sicily for 3 years. Never saw one place that served speghetti with a spoon, unless it was a tourist location. Mostly you did the way described earlier. Spear some, twirl a little, bite off the ends that are off the fork, repeat until it’s gone.
I have read/heard somewher that the general Italian opinion is that only children and Swedish tourists eat their spaghetti with a spoon (now that is a slur on my nationality if I ever saw one).
What I was commenting on was the fact that they switched hands depending on the type food. I know about the use of the fork with the left hand but not that is was in connection with eating meat. [sup]There is a story about American spies being caught during WWII, because they gave themselves away with the way they used their forks.[/sup]
As stated we wondered around Umbra and Tuscany not visiting many tourist spots (only a couple in Firenze). I observed people using a spoon and we were given spoons, therefore I now wonder if it has something to do with the part of Italy one is in.
The French do not like being called “frogs”; the Japanese do not like being called “Japs” and I would imagine you’d be in trouble if you called Germans “Krauts”. Have you not noticed that things have changed since WWII?
(1) My Sicilian grandmother would sometimes use the fork/spoon method, but more often simply use fork against the plate. I tend to do the latter.
(2) As a half-Sicilian from the northeast, I have not met any Italian who found "Eye"talian offensive to anything more than the ear (in the same way boy bands are offensive to the ear). I had to unlearn some midwesterners - I told them that there is no country "Eye"taly, hence I could not be "Eye"talian (and besides, I’m Sicilian, not Italian)
So it seems that however we eat our spaghetti, some people don’t like what other people call us and other people are cool about it. I’d repeat my previous observation that you should be led by the feelings of the person on the receiving end.
Frog - I have some good friends in France who jokingly refer to themselves by that word when talking to me (and call me le boeuf). I wouldn’t ever use it to a stranger though.
Limey - Doesn’t bother me much, but I’d assume it was intended as an insult if I didn’t know the person very well.
Jap, Kraut, Eye-tie - Wouldn’t dream of using any of these unless they did first, so we’d need to be good friends already
Yank - You tell me.
Brit - Believe it or not some of us don’t like that one either, but I’d make allowance for the fact that you probably wouldn’t guess why. I’d strongly urge you to avoid it in an Irish bar or anywhere in Northern Ireland in case you have to carry your chin home with your one good hand ;).
By “out here” you mean northern California? I can’t speak for the whole country, but I definitely am familiar with that region. (Why did you assume I was from somewhere else?)
Pronouncing “Eye-talian” is not necessarily the same thing as spelling out “Eye-talian.” Pronunciation varies; here in Southeastern Oregon, many people say “Eye-talian.” They do not know that this could be offensive; it is how the word “Italian” is pronounced. I’m not making a statement about whether it is or isn’t offensive; just noting that regional pronunciation varies. When people wish to be intentionally offensive or disparaging, they have other ways to refer to Italians.
[hijack]BTW, Oregon voters just voted to remove biased and prejudiced language from obsolete statutes, generally miscegenation laws and limits to property ownership, etc.[/hijack]
As another half-Sicilian living in the same area as D_Odds, I have to agree that the pronunciation “Eyetalian” is generally not taken as offensive to anything but the ear, and I ,at least, assume that the person is from someplace ( like the midwest;)) where it’s a common pronunciation.
Well, it seem’s that Italians are just as varied among thamselves as people of any other group. Most of the Italians I knew were Sicilian, and used a spoon. However, some didn’t and some used a spoon part of the time.
None, I think, would have been insulted if you said eyetalian in one word. If you said eye (pause) talian, with a sneer, they would have.
They said Italian. Or 'taliano. Something like that, anyway. Been a while.
BTW; It’s generally not a good idea to tell your 19 yr. old buddy that his 16 yr. old sister is “cute”. Not around the family, anyway. :eek:
Peace,
Mangeorge
