How do Chinese neologisms work?

I don’t speak or write any of the Chinese languages. But my understanding is that Chinese words are written as logograms rather than phonograms. And the meaning of spoken words depends on the tone in which it’s pronounced. This seems overly complicated to me but it’s their language not mine.

But what happens when a new word is introduced into the Chinese language? Who decides what the new word should look like, how it should be pronounced, and what its tone will be? And once these things have been established, how is the information conveyed to other people?

In English, if you see a new word you can sound out its pronunciation based on the letters. And you can look up an unknown word in the dictionary to find out its meaning. But these possibilities don’t exist in a logographic language.

In Chinese, if someone needs a new word, they make one up. If the word catches on, it becomes part of the language. Same as any other language, really. Typically, a Chinese character will consist of multiple distinct parts. Some part of the character will indicate the phonics of the character, and other parts will relate to the the meaning. Alternatively, if a word already exists in another language, a person could simply use characters that have similar phonics as the origin word.

Chinese dictionaries exist. Characters are typically sorted first by primary radical (part), and then by the number of remaining pen/brush/whatever strokes needed to write the character, excluding the primary radical.

Duang!

I’ve lived in China twice, so I can add some (helpful, or not) info. There could be two guys sitting on a bus or train, reading the same newspaper, the same article, but they’re from different cities and find it difficult to talk to each other because they don’t speak the same language.

They read the same ‘words’ but their vocal representations are different. That’s why many Chinese tv programmes have subtitles, because the whole country reads the same but speaks differently.

Also, reading in Chinese seems more difficult than in Roman script, as a ‘word’ (character) can have a different meaning, depending on what follows it. I’ve seen, many times, taxi drivers take a full minute to read an address as they want to get it right for the ‘Laowai’, and the address isn’t ‘12, Brick Street, New Town’, it’s ‘The fourth turning from ring road seven, along the eastern part of town, go to the left at the garage that used to be a hairdresser, and the apartment block is the one with a cherry tree in front’.

Okay I exaggerate, a bit, but houses don’t tend to have any numbers on and street signs are/were pretty vague where I was.

So to clarify this point, you’re saying it is possible to figure out the spoken pronunciation of a word just from reading it?

That was what I thought - that written Chinese was essentially separate from spoken Chinese because the written appearance of a word is not based on its pronunciation. So a person from Beijing and a person from Shanghai could both read and understand the same written characters. But if they each read them out loud, they’d be saying two different things.

It’s like how an English speaker and a French speaker would both understand what a 3 is. But if you asked them what it was, one would say its a three and the other would say it’s a trois.

This older thread has a bunch of good info on Chinese writing that might be enlightening. It starts slow but keep reading for the meat. Two women under one roof is "misery" in Chinese. Or not. - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board

Thanks to the OP for bringing this up.

Someone needs to explain a few things to me like I’m four years old:

If the same written script represents different languages, how the heck does this work with grammar? Surely the grammar is not the same, or at least not exactly, across the different variants or Chinese? Or is it?

If I introduce a new product on the Chinese market called a “schnoopdongledoo”, who decides how to represent this in Chinese characters? And how? Are the “proper” pictograms, as it were, fixed at this point, and new words and concepts represented by combining existing symbols? Or are new pictograms made up wholesale? If so, is it a regular thing, or something that happens rarely? And then, how would you go about telling everyone how they are supposed to be pronounced?

Apologies if I sound like a complete idiot, but I’m puzzled by this.

Like anything, it’s up to your marketing department.

I don’t speak Chinese, but my parents do.
I recall being in Hong Kong and my mom explaining to me that Coca-Cola in Cantonese uses words that mean very-good-good-down (or something like that) but also roughly sounds like coca-cola. Thus stating the product is good to have and good to drink (good going down, or something like that). Pretty nifty for Coke.

First year (Mandarin) Chinese student here.

First, a correction of a slight misconception : it’s not that the “meaning of spoken words depends on the tone in which it’s pronounced”, not really. Rather, a given syllable can be pronounced 4 different ways (well, five really) and it is that **combination **of sound+tone that forms a syllable or word. To us ghost-people who don’t use tonal languages it seems like it would be a source of confusion, but to a Chinese (or Vietnamese, or Korean etc…) person “mă” and “mà” are as different and unique as, I dunno, A and B are to us. They’re just not the same sound.

Things are complicated a bit by the fact that there typically are multiple characters that can be used for each of these sound+tone combinations ; and in turn each of those individual characters usually means different, sometimes completely unrelated things. Also while each character is a word (in the “unit of meaning” sense of the word), a word can also be composed of multiple characters/syllables. You’re supposed to figure out the meaning of what is said by context, and when that doesn’t work you ask the speaker “which character(s) do you mean by [phonetic] ?”, at which point they will trace it in the air or on a piece of paper which narrows the exact meaning down.

In practice it’s less complicated, or at least less ambiguous, than I think I’m making it sound :).

Back to your question, which is one I actually asked my teacher this year : Whoever coins the neologism basically gets to pick which characters they want to use for the purpose. After that, either it catches on and it becomes a “real” word, or it doesn’t : same as any other language.
New unique *characters *are very rare these days - they’ve already got more of *those *to work with than they know what to do with :stuck_out_tongue:

If the neologism is e.g. a new concept or object for which there is no Chinese word yet, that concept can be deconstructed to its operative principles - characters or words for which typically already exist in Chinese - and a new word is coined using those characters. For example, a Chinese word for computer is Diànnăo, which could be translated literally as “electric brain”. In other cases the choice seems more “abritrary” : for example the USA is Měiguó or “the pretty country” ; England is Yīngguó, “the flower country” (or, now that I think about it, could simply be derived from the English word itself since “Eng” and Yīng are pretty close) ; while France is Fǎguó, “the country of laws”. Japan is Rìběn, “Where the Sun comes from”.

When the neologism is a loanword, then whoever wants to use it in writing gets to pick a set of characters that, regardless of their individual meaning, would be pronounced the same way. For example McDonald’s is rendered in Chinese as Màidānɡláo, which taken literally would mean something like “Wheat equal to fatigue/hard work” - purely nonsensical. But it sounds the same, or at least is sounds like how the Chinese hear & pronounce the word “McDonald’s”. Pizza is Bǐsà, and so on.
In other words in that case the new word is “spelled out” phonetically.
Quote:
In English, if you see a new word you can sound out its pronunciation based on the letters. And you can look up an unknown word in the dictionary to find out its meaning. But these possibilities don’t exist in a logographic language.
Of course they do.
Pinyin (the official system for writing Chinese using the Roman alphabet, which I’ve been using here all along instead of copy/pasting characters) helps there because you can e.g. type “mai” in a search engine and get returned every character that exists to encode mai, mài, măi, māi and mái along with their meaning. And of course paper pinyin dictionaries can be ordered alphabetically.

But if you run into a character or set of characters the meaning of which you don’t know, you can still look *those *up in a dictionary directly - they obviously can’t use an alphabetic order in that case but characters can still be typified and classified - by number, order and type of brush strokes ; by sub-parts of the character and so forth.

As for “how do you know how to pronounce a character you’ve never encountered” : you just don’t, and have to look that up. But 98%+ of modern Chinese words only make use of ~3,000 unique characters so it’s pretty easy to learn all of those by rote (he said ironically) !

It mostly is, as I understand it. The grammar and writing system are shared, it’s just that the different dialects pronounce the same written words/characters completely differently. You can think of it in terms of regional accents if that helps : a Scot and an American speaking out the same written phrase would sound somewhat different ; and they might even have a lot of trouble understanding each other actually :slight_smile: ; but they’re both still basically speaking English.
The difference in Chinese dialects are of the same order, except that instead of a Scot saying “me” where an American says “my” (a small difference) ; a Cantonese says “tsu” where a Szichuanese says “snarglebüflarp” (not the same sound at all).

You can take an educated guess, in a number of cases. For the simplest characters (characters with relatively few strokes), you just have to memorize them. You can’t “break down” them down into their component parts, because there’s nothing to break down. For more complex characters, you can guess as to what the phonics are, if you don’t know already know them, by looking at the proper part of the character. I can’t think of many situations where knowing this would be useful, though. Usually, if you’ve learned the character and its meaning, you learned the pronunciation at the same time. Just knowing pronunciation without the general meaning doesn’t get you very far, language-wise.

As a simple example, the chinese character for steam (qi4) is composed of two parts, the radical for water (shui3) on the left and the word air (qi4) on the right. Steam and air are pronounced the same.

While Chinese and Vietnamese are tonal languages, Korean is not.

Korean, Hangul, was ‘invented’ during the Joseon Dynasty in 1443. It isn’t tonal but Koreans also use Chinese numbers sometimes. They might be tonal?

No need to put invented in quotation marks. King Sejong commissioned a group of scholars to create 한글 (Hangeul). The Hangeul letters represent the sounds, of course, of the Korean language.

Regarding the numbers in Korean, that language does have two types of numbers:

[list=a][li]Native Korean[/li][ol][li]하나 Hana[/li][li]둘 Tul[/li][li]셋 Set[/li][li]넷 Net[/li][li]etc.[/ol][/li][li]Sino-Korean[/li][ol][li]일 Il[/li][li]이 Ee[/li][li]삼 Sam[/li][li]사 Sa[/li][li]etc.[/ol][/list][/li]
The native Korean numbers are not tonal, nor are the Sino-Korean numbers.

My mistake then, thank you for the correction.

No worries.