How do Christians explain the evolution of man?

I’m not affronted; I’m amused.

On looking over my post, I see that I dropped out a clause, during editing, for which I apologize.

My point was not that you should not have started this thread, but that you should look over similar threads to see how they have been argued in the past. That might give you a better idea of how to frame your arguments.

I presume that you have already seen Darwin’s Finch’s response regarding monkeys and apes?
Similarly, you should, by now, have noticed several of the other responses. My general point is that neither religion nor Christianity, in particular, are antithetical to science (although, as Lissa’s posts indicate, there are certainly (some) Christians who have a problem with science when it contradicts their reading of the bible).

People who view the world as purely material and people who (claim to) perceive a spiritual dimension that transcends the material world can never prove that their opponents are wrong. So the only point of such a discussion is to exchange ideas and gain a better understanding of what the other person believes or accepts. Attempting to disprove either viewpoint is doomed to failure.

I see your point, however Arabic does not tell us where we came from and how the universe was created. It is just a language. I agree that we have a use for religion. It is used by millions of people as a crutch to help them through life. It gives people something to latch on to, a set of rules for them to follow. Without religion, I believe the world would be a worse place. Just look at how many dangerous convicted criminals find Jesus whilst in prison, and become reformed men.

Tom: Just a quick note for now… you’re right I should have researched that OP better. It was glib and not very well thought out. I certainly don’t think that Christianity is, in general, incompatable with science.

Answer to Question: God did it.

I’d also observe that “man descended from apes” is inaccurate – to be more correct, primitive hominoids which were largely “generalists” in biological terms diverged, one branch remaining generalists but becoming largely upright in posture, predominantly hairless, and adopting modes of using parts of their environment to alter other parts (tool use in very general terms). The other branch specialized for forest life, a focus on fruit as a dietary staple, and some skill at brachiation (though some generalist traits remain, particularly in Pan). So it would be more accurate biologically to say that apes evolved from early men.

And samarm, it is quite possible that man invented religion as a means of explaining the inexplicable, but that is founded on a worldview that leaves an active God out of consideration. On the other hand, a God attempting to reveal something of Himself and His will to humanity, and having various people get some of it right but embroider it with their own personal prejudices, equally well fits the picture of Neolithic and Bronze and Early Iron Age man.

A comment for Samarm to ponder:

you tell us that Jesus is an invention, then you invite us to consider convicts who find him, and have their lives changed as a result.

It would seem your position is not backed up by your evidence.

Polycarp: I’m of the view that man invented religion (not just Christianity) to help him make sense of the world, but this was not God’s way of attempting to reveal His will to the people. You mention the ancient Neolithic and Bronze / Iron age people - I presume there is some evidence of religion at this time?

BalmainBoy: You can believe in something, that something can change your life, it can turn your life around, it can make you feel happier than you ave ever felt. That something does not have to exist. It really doesn’t matter if Jesus died for our sins, or that God really loves you. If you have a strong enough belief, then anything is possible.

You know Tom, you didn’t have to phrase that in such a way as to make me look like an idiot. I may not be a seasoned debater, and I may not know a lot about evolution… but when I come into GD with a few points I expect to spark a healthy discussion, and yes I expect to learn things. I don’t however expect to have my errors mocked unhelpfully.

JerseyDiamond: Thanks for your contribution.

I know someone who works in a prison. I could point to just as many inmates who have found Islam and become reformed men. There are also a few who have found Buddha and are working their way toward enlightenment. (I’ve also heard of Odin worship, but this seems to be intertwined with white supremecy.) And then there are those who have found just plain old reason and decided to become better people.

You make a good point, Lissa. You’ve got to the heart of what I was trying to say. It’s a belief in something. It doesn’t have to be the Jesus that Christians believe in. It’s something to believe in that gets you through the hard times. That’s what religion is there for, not just for inmates, but for millions of people.

samarm, you launched what appeared to be an attack intended to challenge an entire system of belief (a system with multiple, sometimes conflicting, variations) and in your presentation you included a statement that indicated a significant error (or significant ignorance) regarding the core of your argument. I don’t think that I’ve made you look like an idiot–I do not even think that you do look like an idiot.

I do, however, think that you looked a bit ill-informed and, perhaps, hasty. I am not the only poster who challenged the “monkey” statement. Beyond that, your OP made no provision for distinguishing among biblical literalists, (divided betrween Young Earth Creationists and Ancient Earth Creationists), theistic evolutionists, or any of several other varieties of persons who profess Christianity but express widely different views regarding evolution and the descent of humans.

My comment was cautionary. Had I felt like insulting you, I’d have dragged you over to the Pit and hurled some real insults at you.

samarm

Your point being?

Seriously. I could have put anything in there in place of religion, including the term “society” itself. Society doesn’t tell us how the universe is created, but it tells us to do lots of things. And here’s the kicker, if everybody in a society suddenly stopped believing in that society, it could cease to exist! Poof, just like that. America only exists as long as everyone believes in it.

So why should Christianity “justify” its own existence, any more than America has to justify its existence?

I think that the whole “it’s a crutch” thing can smack a little of superiority for my liking. Apologies if you didn’t mean it to come across this way, but, you know, years of conditioning :). Suffice it to say, if religion is a crutch, then many other things which people don’t acknowledge as such, the numerous other “beneficial delusions” such as law, language, greater common goods, etc etc, are also “crutches”. One might make the same arguments about logic, scientific method, humanism, whatever you like.

At the end of the day, all these things are means to ends. They are structures for thought and perception which enable us to not think about every little tiny detail of our lives every time something new happens. It is impossible to live life and think about it in the detail it deserves, so we find ways of explaining away the wonder of it all. These things may be true, or false, or somewhere in between. It is not for me to say which is false or true, but they are all, to a certain extent, the same as the next one over.

As a philosophy, this one tends to be fairly inclusive of other people’s worldviews. Fair enough, the guy who believes in Allah might be deluding himself. But, I’m deluding myself when I believe in enlightened self interest and the pragmatic method, so who’s counting?
I also don’t think Tomndebb’s intent was to mock you unhelpfully. I, myself, had some similar comments but didn’t feel it was right at the time to post them. However, to back up his point, I must say that the “creation vs evolution” thread is one that you’ll find on every internet message board in the world, and some of them can be remarkably informative about both sides of the argument. Your OP, although it is a question which no doubt intrigues you, is, if you will excuse me for saying so, somewhat crude when compared to the various nuances that have popped up time and time again in places like Talk Origins. For a few of us old hats at this message board malarkey, who have seen this kind of thing before hundreds of times, the question is so simplistic, with a thousand different possible answers, as to make it almost a little boggling as to how people are still asking it.

Again, not that you don’t have a right to ask it, just don’t be upset when people say that it might be more helpful for you to look over old threads and see if the information is there, before asking them to take a few hours out of their lives and write out something for your benefit.

Tom and McDuff: OK I can see what you mean. I’ll research the subject a little, and try to come up with a better OP.

Christians do not explain the evolution of man because a real christian does not believe in evolution at all. Anyone who believes the bible is from God and that what it says is correct could not possibly believe in evolution.

As for humans being from apes, the bible definitely does not support that at all. God created every living thing according to it’s kind according to the book of Genesis. That means every living thing was created uniquely and that cats do not turn into dogs and visa-versa over passage of huge amounts of time.

Evolution itself actually takes more faith than to believe that everything was created. If I told you that your house built itself, you’d call me crazy. That’s basically what the evolutionist try to claim by telling us that animals down to the simplest life forms just miraculously came about.

It takes millions of molecules to make just the simplest life forms. The chance that all necessary molecules will be in the right place at the right time are impossible. A simple protein molecule forming at random in an organic soup has a chance of 1:10(113) [1 followed by 113 zeros]. Any event that has one chance in just 1:10(50) [1 followed by 50 zeros] is dismissed by mathematicians as never happening. An idea of the odds, or probability, involved is seen in the fact that the number 10(113) is larger than the estimated total number of all the atoms in the universe!

And now that we can’t even get a protein molecule to come about, we want to ensure that all these proteins and amino acids all came together, all at the same place, at the same time and survived the organic soup to form a living one celled organism. What are those odds?

It takes a whole heaping amount of faith to believe in evolution even more than it does to believe in creation. I could certainly believe that the earth was planned out and created, but to believe it all happened by accident—last accident I had didn’t create anything but destruction or damage.

According to evolutionists we will get a superior house by blowing up and old house—The Big Bang Theory.

Christians do not explain the evolution of man because a real christian does not believe in evolution at all. Anyone who believes the bible is from God and that what it says is correct could not possibly believe in evolution.

As for humans being from apes, the bible definitely does not support that at all. God created every living thing according to it’s kind according to the book of Genesis. That means every living thing was created uniquely and that cats do not turn into dogs and visa-versa over passage of huge amounts of time.

Evolution itself actually takes more faith than to believe that everything was created. If I told you that your house built itself, you’d call me crazy. That’s basically what the evolutionist try to claim by telling us that animals down to the simplest life forms just miraculously came about.

It takes millions of molecules to make just the simplest life forms. The chance that all necessary molecules will be in the right place at the right time are impossible. A simple protein molecule forming at random in an organic soup has a chance of 1:10(113) [1 followed by 113 zeros]. Any event that has one chance in just 1:10(50) [1 followed by 50 zeros] is dismissed by mathematicians as never happening. An idea of the odds, or probability, involved is seen in the fact that the number 10(113) is larger than the estimated total number of all the atoms in the universe!

And now that we can’t even get a protein molecule to come about, we want to ensure that all these proteins and amino acids all came together, all at the same place, at the same time and survived the organic soup to form a living one celled organism. What are those odds?

It takes a whole heaping amount of faith to believe in evolution even more than it does to believe in creation. I could certainly believe that the earth was planned out and created, but to believe it all happened by accident—last accident I had didn’t create anything but destruction or damage.

According to evolutionists we will get a superior house by blowing up and old house—The Big Bang Theory.

That’s weird … double posts.

That’s one view, of course…

Hey, how come I can’t edit or remove my double post???

Oh, nonsense. You’re doing the same tired old dodge that people like GOM keep using- you wave your hands and say that scientists can’t explain abiogenesis, and you use that as your little excuse to believe in whatever you please, even if it has nothing to do with abiogenesis.

Why don’t you talk turkey? Quit hiding behind the screen of abiogenesis and defend your belief in special creation with some real evidence. Perhaps you could start by explaining retrogenes?

Ben, when you can prove that this all got here by accident, come back and post your findings. Until then, don’t stick your foot into your mouth :wink:

You are just upset because my reasonings are bullet proof :stuck_out_tongue:

And yet, a great many people who are Christian understand that evolution is the best explanation of the observed facts in the fossil record, the patterns and structures of microbiological phenomena, ecological niches, and the hundreds of other bits of evidence pointing to evolution as the best explanation of the speciation of life on Earth.

Those same Christians recognize that the Bible is a moral text, not a biological treatise, and that the truths expounded in Genesis 1 and 2 describe the Divine authorship of all things, without pretending to be a blueprint or an historical record of the events as they happened.

BTW, I have hundreds of other reasons why evolution can’t be the way we got here … but I won’t post them just yet. Do you really want the number of odds that this all happened by accident??? It would boggle your mind if I told you.

You’d have to be a religious fanatic to believe in evolution.