How do christians justify divorce?

Great Debates
1

When I was growing up you just didn’t get divorced if you were Catholic (especially) or Protestant. Couples just split up or lived in the same house without being “married”. It was always said it was for the kids. No one admitted that it had a religious angle.

Well in the last 25 years it seems that divorce is becoming accepted in all religions. The “what God has joined let no man break apart” line might have well be removed from the ceremony.

My question: What happened, is it better nowadays with the more divorces vs unhappy marriages, why is it accepted in the church?

It seems to me that the Catholic church just said it was a law that was so frequency broke that they should just forget it. (We even have a support group at our church.) That doesn’t seem right to me. If something is wrong then it is wrong no matter how many do it.

2

"It seems to me that the Catholic church just said it was a law that was so frequency broke that they should just forget it. (We even have a support group at our church.) "

I’m Catholic and I don’t recall this. :slight_smile: Since when did the Pope say it was OK, even by default? I can certainly understand having a support group - if someone divorces you, then you CAN’T do a lot about it. The gov says your wife (or husband) can divorce you, so they can. The church may not like it, but that doesn’t mean we can’t try to help people through that time.

3

Your entire assumption is wrong. Divorce is NOT okay for Catholics. Lots of Catholics get divorced, but the Church is not happy about it.

4

The Catholic church has a section of canon law on what makes a marriage. If, at the time of the wedding, the criteria are not met, the marriage can be annuled.

The Church does not recognize (IIRC) secular divorce, only annulments that have gone through the process. Annulments have always been granted (its what Henry VIII was trying to get way back when). There may be more (or perhaps less, as we care less and can convert to Episcopalians easily) than there used to be. A frequent complaint is that the church charges for the service - they do, but you don’t need to pony up the cash if you don’t have it, and it still gets granted (assuming you qualify).

My grandparents divorced in the 1940s - and had a child - so it isn’t true that it used to “not happen.” My grandmother even got an annulment and remarried in the Catholic Church. Divorce happened, it was just not so frequent and often very quiet.

IIRC, the requirements for a sacremental marriage include:

  1. Both parties enter the marriage willingly, are of sound mind, with the intent to create a sacremental marriage

  2. There is an intent to have children.

  3. There is the ability to be faithful to your spouse.

I know someone on this board has a background in canon law and can correct me. I’m simply a former Catholic who went through an annulment.

BTW, an annulment is a pain in the butt to go through. You have to be able to prove that at least one of the above didn’t apply to you.

5

I know its not officially OK with the church but it seem to be overlooked/excused. It seems that the church is bending over backwards to keep someone from leaving. Our priest makes a big deal about visiting the prisons because they are the ones who need it the most. I would argue that the families without the criminal dad would be more needy but thats another issue. Maybe its just our parish. That is a unique thing about Catholics, its so flexible. One parish might be ultra conservative while the next parish might be liberal. Both would present their views as the church’s view.

6

It is true that the procedures for annulment in recent years have made it easier to successfully apply for an annulment. Sorry, no details or cite.

Can you get married if you’ve had a hysterectomy? Or do you have to be committed to adopting at that point?

7

justinh, I think you also miss a key factor in the Catholic Church’s policy. Civil divorce is not the problem (hence, allowing your church’s divorce support group); remarriage is. A married couple may decide they never want to see each other again. Fine; but they are still married in the eyes of the Church, and if they civilly re-marry, they are committing the sin of adultery.

Sua

8

The Church exists for the benefit of sinners. Why would they want to drive you away?

9

Its the “intent” that counts - not the ability. If you have had a hysterectomy, but are willing to take the children God gives you - sure you can get married.

After all, God has granted children to barren women before.

10

I believe the Orthodox church allows divorce and remarriage, but I’m not sure.

I don’t think it is encouraged, but it’s not considered as bad in their view as it is in the Catholic one.

11

Years ago, when someone got a divorce or a girl became pregnant out of wedlock there was a feeling of shame attached to it. These things happened but everyone knew that they were not condoned. Today, as stated above, we have support groups, etc. for these people. It can be argued that this is much better than the way the people were treated in the past. However, it is hard to give people support and not seem like you are condoning the act. In fact I think we just feel better accepting the act. That in return negates some of the reason for support.

12

Our male priest, who is divorced, fell due to preach on the Sunday when the Gospel was Jesus’s teachings on divorce. He did a great job. The following is the gist of what he said:

“A marriage is, effectively, a living thing – a third reality composed of the union of two people. It can suffer injury, pain, joy, separation, and many other things. It deserves to be cherished, celebrated, its wounds healed, evry effort made to keep it alive, its brokenness made whole. And when it dies, to be buried and the partners who made it should move on.”

IMHO, wise words.

13

Yes, but what man has joined, man can break apart. The idea is that the romance that seemed to be “of God” was merely a deception and these two were defying the will of God when they got married in the first place. So even though the things that God has brought together cannot be separated by man, the things that man has brought together can be separated by God. So some divorces can be a good thing.

14

Polycarp,
That does sound wise. Would you have gotten the same homily 10 years ago? It just seems to me that the church is bending. Same with conctraceptives. Is abortion next?

Second question,
What happens if a marriage dies and one of the partners move on but the other doesn’t? Dont you need both to annul a marriage?

15

I don’t get the sense that Polycarp was talking about what a Roman Catholic priest said. (It’s possible he was, I guess… but “Our male priest, who is divorced” has two clues for me that the RCC is not involved there.

In the RCC, a decree of nullity is valid as to both parties. If one half of the couple seeks an annulment, and it’s granted, the other party does not need to do anything else.

Or perhaps you were asking if the consent of both is needed. The answer is no - although it does make things easier. The annulment process is essentially a trial. One party is seeking a legal finding that, despite appearances at the time to the contrary, the sacrament of matrimony was not conferred. Even if both parties say it wasn’t, the presumption is that it was – in fact, there is a canon lawyer whose job is “Defender of the Bond” and he argues for the validity of the marriage. One of the spouses may also testify in favor of the bond, even if the other now offers evidence of flaws.

A judge hears the evidence, weighs the credibility of the witnesses, and renders a decision. In the case of annulments, this decision must be reviewed by an appellate court before it becomes effective.

  • Rick
16

About the consent of both parties to annul- wsn’t there a Kennedy annulment recently that one partner totally opposed? Didn’t make a bit of difference.

PS- I have been a Protestant (Methodist, actually, and kindly keep your Blazing Saddles jokes to yourself!) for 34 years, and divorce has never been a “sin” nor has it been a problem. Remarriage is also neither a sin nor a problem.

17

I’m Episcopalian, and the priests at our parish church (aside from an ordained professor of English who is a “tentmaker” priest, and who keeps his membership there and attends there when not supplying) are a married couple, both called to the priesthood. We called Lorraine as our rector, and Jim, who had served at the cathedral prior to that call and who supplied a Durham church when they moved here, was called as her assistant as soon as we could afford a second full-time position. They operate as a team, except for those few occasions when Lorraine must legally act in the rector’s role (and, I’m sure, discuss what needs to be done beforehand). They alternate the conduct of Sunday Eucharist, one preaching and the other celebrating one week, and switching roles the following week. It was Jim of whom I spoke.

18

Protestant sects are not necessarily more accepting of divorce. I live in the Bible Belt where many (most?) people attend fundamentalist churches where speaking in tongues and faith healing are the normal Sunday fare. There is also a large hispanic, Catholic population, but we all know Catholics aren’t Christians, so they don’t count. [/sarcasm]

Jesus said a person can divorce his/her spouse if the other party has committed adultery. Even then, remarriage is forbidden. The only time you’re supposed to be allowed to remarry is if you’ve been widowed. (I’ve always wondered how that works when they all get to heaven: “Bernie, meet my first husband, Claude. Claude, this is my third husband, Bernie. My second husband, Mike, couldn’t make it; I hear he’s being tortured in a hail of brimstone at the moment. Ha ha!”)

I know several people who have been expelled from their fundamentalist churches for divorce. (I also have a close friend who was ejected from the Church of Christ while she was in the hospital, near death from bulimia, because she’d committed the sin of “gluttony”.) However, if you were divorced and remarried a dozen times before entering the church in the first place, that would be okay, because supposedly you weren’t a “real” Christian then and didn’t know any better.

Divorce is just as common here as anywhere, from what I can see. Unlike the Catholic Church, these various fundamentalist sects have no central authority: if you’re kicked out of one church, you simply go down the street and join another. All three of my rabidly fundamentalist sisters-in-law are divorced, one of them going on her fourth time. There are few official sancions; you just need to feel sufficiently guilty about it.

[warning: hijack] Oddly (or maybe not so oddly) we also have one of the highest rates of out-of-wedlock births and STD’s in the nation. The protestant churches here are very opposed to birth control because you should “let God decide” how many children you’ll have. Abortion is not only the most hideous crime imaginable- even if the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest, and even if the mother’s life is in danger- abortion is not available within hundreds of miles.[/hijack]

I’m sure that not all Protestant fundamentalist groups work this way, and I don’t have anything personally against them, but this is the way it is in my particular part of the world.

19

Holly,
Where did Jesus say you could divorce a spouse if they had committed adultery?

20

I think this is the passage.

Matthew 5.31-32