How do high end hotels get away with nickel-and-diming? Is this typical?

[Ludovic]

@suranyi

Embassy Suites is not a cheap chain. It’s an upscale brand at about the same level as Hilton and Marriott.

@bump

Really? They always seem kind of second-rate to me, compared to the Marriotts and Hiltons I’ve been to.

The one Embassy Suites I’ve been in is more upscale than the one Hilton I’ve been in. The Hilton was only about as expensive as a Hampton Inn, and didn’t have as nice a decor as the Embassy.

The again, the Hilton was at Disney, so perhaps in other places, the clientele can make the places seem about the same on an upscale basis. Embassy Suites is party central due to its large suite size and free [del]happy hour[/del] manager’s reception, while for all I know Hilton in non-Disney locations could be stocked with more businessmen making it seem more relatively upscale. The Hilton did have a more extensive room service menu, I will give it that.

Now the funny thing about this particular Embassy Suites is that while I nearly always see a party gathering in the lobby, I never get disturbed in the night from any noise. Contrast this to lower-end chain hotels like Ramada where the families that go there are so loud and the walls are so thin that any time anyone talks extensively in the hallway it wakes you up [not to mention people of all ages and inebriation levels who treat the hallway as their personal rec room].

But to add more anecdotes for the OP, I too noticed that at Doubletree, they want to charge you $15 a day for Internet access. (I don’t know if this is the case at Hilton or Embassy because I didnt bring devices with.) But I was surprised that, at least at that particular Doubletree, since I get DSL with AT+T I could just log in with my AT+T password and not get charged for the Internet. [babyscorefist.jpg]

[Habeed]

@RickJay

But that’s not what the OP is asking. You’re missing the point. The question is why do they do it?

Remember, this isn’t a case of the hotel offering service for more value; it’s the hotel charging for exactly the same product another hotel gives away for free (like Internet access) or engaging in constant, in-your-face upselling. We’re not talking about added value.

I mean, I’ve stayed in four star hotels and two star hotels and in terms of the room I get for the price, there absolutely IS a difference. A four star hotel is invariably better in many ways - the room is nicer, the bed softer, the sheets and towels better, the bathroom better, the facilities better, the lobby nicer, the restaurant better. But the Internet access is no better, so why am I forking out $19 for it?

Of course the answer comes down to price discrimination. But it’s not that the OP is cheap.

I guess my mental problem with it is that “constant upsell” feels like low class to me. Companies offering high quality products that are worth the money tend to charge higher up-front fees, but offer a lot of genuine value for the money. They often provide support and other services without charging additional fees, they roll a lot of things in, etc. Small vendors I’ve dealt with at work tend to do this, and of course Apple computers is like this.

[Chimera]

My parents were staying at the Renaissance Inn at the Depot in downtown Minneapolis for my niece’s wedding. Of course, they wanted to charge some ludicrous price for wifi access. :rolleyes: I said no thanks, I only work a couple of blocks away and have 24/7 access to the building. If I really need a computer, I’ll go use the one on my desk.

A week and a half ago stayed at The Bavarian Inn in Custer, SD for the Buffalo Roundup. Of course, $119 a night because of the event. But free wifi and a fairly substantial free continental breakfast.

Mystifies me why higher end hotels charge for it. Oh sure, lots of people are business travelers. But not all of them. My niece’s wedding party must have had at least half of the rooms in the place. You’d think they’d throw in the wifi for that kind of booking.

[Darth_Panda]

So, I’ll be a dick and just say it:

Part of spending a lot of money on a hotel room is to ensure that the guy next door did too.

[Keeve]

I’d love to have a job where I go on a business trip and the guy from Accounting says, "Have a great time. Go first class. " instead of “your per diem is $ xxx.”

[md2000]

@Chimera

My parents were staying at the Renaissance Inn at the Depot in downtown Minneapolis for my niece’s wedding. Of course, they wanted to charge some ludicrous price for wifi access. :rolleyes: I said no thanks, I only work a couple of blocks away and have 24/7 access to the building. If I really need a computer, I’ll go use the one on my desk.

A week and a half ago stayed at The Bavarian Inn in Custer, SD for the Buffalo Roundup. Of course, $119 a night because of the event. But free wifi and a fairly substantial free continental breakfast.

Mystifies me why higher end hotels charge for it. Oh sure, lots of people are business travelers. But not all of them. My niece’s wedding party must have had at least half of the rooms in the place. You’d think they’d throw in the wifi for that kind of booking.

As I said - the business travellers expense it, the rest - either they shell out the $20 or not. If they do, bonus. If not, no loss for the hotel. The people that stay elsewhere to save $20 probably also don’t shell out $300 for a room. The wedding guests stayed there anyway, I bet at least one set paid for internet or had a $5 beer.

I stayed at the Millenium Hilton across from the WTC a few weeks ago for 4 days. IIRC it was $219 a night, a bargain considering it jumped to $300+ a night the next night. (Prices on Hotels.com were all over the map.) At that price, it was cheaper than across the river in Jersey City over the PATH train, more convenient, right on the subway, fantastic view, etc. We got by with 3G, McD’s and the free lobby Wifi. Hilton was happy. We were happy.

[FoundWaldo]

@Darth_Panda

So, I’ll be a dick and just say it:

Part of spending a lot of money on a hotel room is to ensure that the guy next door did too.

Let me step up and be even less popular. I stay at a lot of hotels, and generally pretty expensive ones when I have the choice (Four Seasons, Ritz, etc., with Hilton, Westin, and W as my second tier). I sometimes have to stay at lower-end hotels due to location or availability, and the clientele is very different. Lower end hotels tend to have more families with children, young people, large groups and partiers (children, BTW, are one of the biggest reasons I avoid Embassy Suites). I have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING against any of those groups, and have been a member of each of them myself at various times. But they are not compatible with a quiet and calm atmosphere, which is what I want when I go to a hotel, regardless of whether it’s for business or pleasure.

I don’t want to be awakened at 2AM by a rowdy group coming back from the bar, nor at 6AM by the neighbor’s kid throwing a tantrum. When I go to the pool I want to be able to read in relative piece, or lounge quietly. In my experience, I am vastly more likely to have the experience I want at an expensive hotel than a mid-range or cheap one. So it’s a no-brainer for me. I want to enjoy my vacation or have a productive business trip, and I choose the hotels that are most likely to provide that.

As for the nickel and diming, it’s a non-issue. Even when I’m paying myself, a few dollars extra for wifi isn’t a big deal. The free breakfasts I’ve had at hotels that offer them are generally not what I want to eat so I end up going somewhere and paying anyway – having a real restaurant in the hotel is preferable to having crappy free breakfast. If I’m thirsty in the middle of the night, I don’t really care if it costs $5 for a bottle of water. No, I don’t make a habit of partaking of the mini bar, but you can’t really pin that one on high end hotels; the cheaper ones simply don’t have mini bars.

[UltraVires]

@Habeed

I guess my mental problem with it is that “constant upsell” feels like low class to me. Companies offering high quality products that are worth the money tend to charge higher up-front fees, but offer a lot of genuine value for the money. They often provide support and other services without charging additional fees, they roll a lot of things in, etc. Small vendors I’ve dealt with at work tend to do this, and of course Apple computers is like this.

I agree with this. Imagine going to a nice restaurant and finding out that it charges 25 cents for each water refill. It’s not the 25 cents that matters; they could have added $3 to your entree and you wouldn’t have cared. But the fact that these bastards are charging you for what Kathy’s Diner and Bait Shop gives you as part of the base price pisses me off.

All of the comments about better clientele, thicker walls, cleaner rooms, firmer beds, and the like can all be attributed to and included in the higher base price.

But as others have said, they aren’t primarily in business to serve people like you and I. They are in business to serve people who use the internet, eat the breakfast buffet, raid the minibar, order room service, have the concierge arrange for escorts to come to their room with giant bowls of cocaine, drink the $6 bottles of water and simply sign their name to their company credit card when they check out.

Also as others have said, if they keep the base price lower, then they will be allowed by more businesses with an upper limit for “lodging” expenses, but don’t have separate limits for these add-ons.

It still pisses me off, though.

[boytyperanma]

@md2000

This is part of it…

This is the key. A large number of travellers who stay in $300 hotel rooms are on someone else’s dollar. As long as the expense is reasonable, the business will pay for it.

(This is what’s wrong with health care, too - when the people getting the service don’t really have to pay, and the people paying - insurance - get reimbursed by someone else - the business - nobdy cares enough about the cost to put their foot down).

If there are 300 rooms, and half are business travellers who want internet enough to pay $20, that’s an extra $3,000 a day. Ditto for breakfast at $25. Add in the people who can easily afford $300+$25+$20 and you make some decent amount of extra. If the others don’t want to pay, well, you got their $300 anyway.

It’s maybe analogous to airline travel. Airlines have the nice low competitive price, it matches their competitors. But… if you want to check a bag - $25. Buy our box lunch - $5. Pick your seat - $3. And so on. their total revenue per passenger is higher than the entry-level “rack rate”. (But in the case of airlines - their cheap seat puts them at the top of Expedia or Travelocity’s list of flights, and that’s how they attract customers.

Keep in mind businesses make sure we are getting what we pay for. It isn’t just business travelers being oblivious to rates that causes businesses to pay them. When your sending someone across the country it’s typically because it’s worth it. We don’t want to send bob 2000 miles away and risk him blowing a business deal because he couldnt get a decent nights sleep. If the hotel costs 400 bucks more in total that’s cheap insurance for a 100k deal.

Same applies to things like first class tickets. Not everyones is in their 20s and can bounce out of a 12 hour flight in a cramped coach seat and put on a good face for the people greating them at the airport. If that first handshakes important enough paying an extra 1k for a seat might be a reasonable business expense.

[sisu]

@GreedySmurf

A part of it as well is what type of clientelle the hotel relies on it. The moderate to higher end hotels often relies on business travellers. With the room being paid for by the employer, the person staying there doesn’t care what other expenses he pays for, it all goes on the bill they don’t have to pay for.

Very few companies will pay beyond room and breakfast, some will pay dinner but touch the mini bar at your own risk! Oh it would be rare for a travelling business man not to have a wireless broadband.

[Spoons]

Even if you’re only staying one night, join the loyalty program. It’s typically free, and for being a member, you often get things like free wifi, perhaps a discount in the restaurant or bar, and so on. A lot of the nickel-and-diming isn’t there, as well. Of course, some is; but not nearly as much.

Stay often enough under the loyalty program, and things start being upgraded and comped. I was once in town for a week on business, and found (to my surprise, since I had reserved just a room) that I had been upgraded to a full suite: sitting room, bedroom, bathroom with jacuzzi. I’ve had other room upgrades, but none as nice as that. Or, there was the time that my alcohol from the minibar was comped–all that was on my bill was the mix. Or the time I experienced flight delays and arrived later than expected. I called my hotel when I arrived in the city, hoping that they had not given away my room. They hadn’t, but when I got to my room finally, I found that the hotel had put a small cold plate there, consisting of some fruit, cheese, and crackers, and a complimentary bottle of water. An accompanying note said, “We thought you might be hungry after your flight was delayed. Enjoy, with our compliments.”

The staff make a big difference too. If you return to a property, they remember you, as staff turnover is not as high as at other places. I’ve had a valet at one property (whom I recognized from a previous visit) say to me as I got out of my car upon arrival, “Welcome back, Mr. Spoons, are you checking in?” In another example, my name was not remembered, but I was in other ways: I walked into the bar of a high-end hotel I hadn’t stayed at for at least a year, and the barman greeted me with, “Sorry I cannot remember your name, but I recognize you. Great to see you again!” Then he completely blew me away. “You’re Maker’s Mark on the rocks, with a draft beer chaser, if I recall.” By the time I picked my jaw up off the floor, there my drinks were, on the bar in front of me.

If you only stay the one night and do not join the loyalty program, then I agree that you’ll feel as if you’re being nickel-and-dimed. But stay a few times under the loyalty program, and you’ll see the difference between high-end places and those that are not high-end.

[Voyager]

@Chimera

Mystifies me why higher end hotels charge for it. Oh sure, lots of people are business travelers. But not all of them. My niece’s wedding party must have had at least half of the rooms in the place. You’d think they’d throw in the wifi for that kind of booking.

Hotels don’t throw in anything without you asking. Whoever reserved the room block - assuming the hotel knew they were looking at other places - could have gotten free wifi for guests just for asking. I don’t negotiate myself but I’m on a committee which gets big room blocks for a conference, and I get a nice suite for a regular room rate, and VIP check in service.
Really cheap hotels are awful. Really expensive ones (unless in really fantastic locations) aren’t worth the money. Good mid-range hotels (and I love Hampton Inns) are an excellent compromise. I never use the gym or the spa, and I try to avoid hotel restaurants unless absolutely necessary. Even when I’m traveling on business.

[doreen]

@sisu

Very few companies will pay beyond room and breakfast, some will pay dinner but touch the mini bar at your own risk! Oh it would be rare for a travelling business man not to have a wireless broadband.

Yes and no. My employer pays a per diem that’s supposed to cover most other expenses - but parking is separate. They’ll pay the Federal Government rate for a hotel room and (I think ) $10 a night for parking- but the same total as a room rate including parking is no good.

[Jackmannii]

@KarlGauss

It’s been said several times here already, but it’s worth emphasizing - in large part, you’re paying the big bucks for location, and attending a conference is a perfect example: staying at the host hotel while attending a conference is worth the extra money to me.

I don’t mind paying a premium so that between talks, or during lunch, or if I simply want to put my head down for an hour, I’m already ‘home’. No rushing between hotels, no finding a cab, etc. It’s more than worth it for me.

Location might be valuable to me if the conference is being held at some out of the way location where the nearest lower-priced hotels/motels are many miles away.

But then I try to select conferences that are not remote from civilization.

For the cost differential between the Stratton Markup Villa Estates and Sleep-Eze Inn, I can eat some nice dinners and take in entertainment, rather than sinking all that money into a room with a bed.

[cmkeller]

FoundWaldo:

Let me step up and be even less popular. I stay at a lot of hotels, and generally pretty expensive ones when I have the choice (Four Seasons, Ritz, etc., with Hilton, Westin, and W as my second tier). I sometimes have to stay at lower-end hotels due to location or availability, and the clientele is very different. Lower end hotels tend to have more families with children, young people, large groups and partiers (children, BTW, are one of the biggest reasons I avoid Embassy Suites). I have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING against any of those groups, and have been a member of each of them myself at various times. But they are not compatible with a quiet and calm atmosphere, which is what I want when I go to a hotel, regardless of whether it’s for business or pleasure.

As a man with a large family that frequently (annually or semi-annually, at least) stays in low-end motels, let me assure you that I heartily agree with your reasoning and take no offense. Anyone who wants calm and quiet would do well to avoid people like us. (And in all honesty, my kids are quite well-behaved examples of the sort, but there’s a limit to just how quiet you can get a large group of kids to be, without drugs.)

[scr4]

Most of the “nickel-and-diming” are services that upscale customers expect, and aren’t available in cheaper hotels. It’s not like cheaper hotels have free valet parking, free room service, free mini-bar, free bellhop, etc.

[Keeve]

@scr4

Most of the “nickel-and-diming” are services that upscale customers expect, and aren’t available in cheaper hotels. It’s not like cheaper hotels have free valet parking, free room service, free mini-bar, free bellhop, etc.

Read the OP again. His point was that cheaper hotels DO tend to offer free wifi and free breakfast.

[suranyi]

@Jackmannii

Location might be valuable to me if the conference is being held at some out of the way location where the nearest lower-priced hotels/motels are many miles away.

But then I try to select conferences that are not remote from civilization.

For the cost differential between the Stratton Markup Villa Estates and Sleep-Eze Inn, I can eat some nice dinners and take in entertainment, rather than sinking all that money into a room with a bed.

The location of the conferences (and weddings) I must attend are not up to me. Unfortunately.

[Jackmannii]

@scr4

Most of the “nickel-and-diming” are services that upscale customers expect, and aren’t available in cheaper hotels. It’s not like cheaper hotels have free valet parking, free room service, free mini-bar, free bellhop, etc.

The cheaper places generally have free parking (no one to tip), complementary breakfast, vending machines with reasonably priced sodas and snacks, plus carts to carry in your bags (again, there’s no one you have to tip).

I do not envy those staying in places where there is a dense layer of service personnel expecting gratuities for things you can easily do yourself.

[Saint_Cad]

@Jackmannii

The cheaper places generally have free parking (no one to tip), complementary breakfast, vending machines with reasonably priced sodas and snacks, plus carts to carry in your bags (again, there’s no one you have to tip).

And free wifi