How do I convince my doctor to renew the Vicodin?

[juspassinby]

Most of these replies are just plain moronic and regurgitation of other uninformed information on the web.

Vicodin is the in a different class of drug then all other opiates. It is relatively weak and the physical addiction potential is minimal. The psychological potential for addiction is a bit higher. This is different person to person.

There is a lot of pressure on Doctors who over prescribe opiates. Your Doctor is could be one of them and why the absolute no. However to legally prescribe a narcotic your condition must 1.) Affect your ability to Work, Eat, and sleep. When these conditions are met most Doctors will prescribe narcotics for long term pain management.

Now, to just say you hurt is not legal reason for a Doctor to prescribe an opiate. When presented in these terms the Doctor can not prescribe them. When pain issues are described in the terms I mention above then they legally can prescribe them.

However, and again, some Doctors have abused the use of narcotics and the DEA is watching them and in cases threatening them. Your Doctor may be in that group.

About pain management; if you need to take more then 3 - 7.5/500 Vicodin per day (or any opiate) it is best for you to be in a pain management program. There are various reasons why this is important.

If you can make it by with 2 or 3 pills a day then a Family Doctor can manage your pain management. However, this is up to the Doctor. There is nothing wrong with being in pain management. They will follow your health and the effect the drug has on your psychologically and physically. A lot of Doctors are referring long term opiate use to pain management clinics. Like everything else it is a specialty that your Doctor may not feel confident managing.

Reading your problem I would also recommend pain management. Your problem is serious and you should qualify for opiates for your conditions. HOWEVER, you must present to the pain management group the condition in terms of the affect it has on your ability to function in terms of sleeping, eating, and working – NOT PAIN!

Everybody hurts and we all have different tolerance levels to pain so pain alone is not reason enough to get an opiate prescription.

I hope this helps you I was just studying up on opiates on the web and unfortunately it is littered with bad information everywhere; lawyers wanting you to sue, people claiming your an addict, and all sorts of other crap. So again I hope you read this and it helps as I will not return to this site I just joined real fast to address your issue! Good Luck!

And remember a drug addict takes pain medicine and drugs to escape life, someone who is not an addict takes pain medicine to participate in life…

[DrDeth]

@juspassinby

Most of these replies are just plain moronic and regurgitation of other uninformed information on the web.

.

Yes, because you know the actual MD who sorta specializes in drugs (Qadgop the Mercotan) is just regurgitating other uninformed information on the web. :rolleyes::dubious:

sigh.

[Cicero]

@DrDeth

Yes, because you know the actual MD who sorta specializes in drugs (Qadgop the Mercotan) is just regurgitating other uninformed information on the web. :rolleyes::dubious:

sigh.

Dr. Deth, you saved me the trouble of saying the same

[Ambivalid]

@juspassinby

Most of these replies are just plain moronic and regurgitation of other uninformed information on the web.
…I was just studying up on opiates on the web

Ha!

[Cicero]

@Ambivalid

Ha!

Good catch.

[elbows]

uninformed information

say what now?

[Broomstick]

@Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus

And while I don’t mean to make light of addiction, it is possible to kick it after the original issue that caused the pain is resolved.

There is a difference between “physical dependence” and “addiction”. One can be on something like morphine long enough to experience withdrawal symptoms with a sudden stop but that does NOT mean the patient is addicted. Addiction includes a psychological component missing from dependence.

Someone dependent on a drug after long use will experience symptoms if they quit using it suddenly, but will find quitting very possible and may even chose cold turkey to get it over with quickly, without ever having any desire to seek out the drug afterwards or ever use it again. Addicts, however, tend to regard withdrawal as tremendous suffering, will resist even a small reduction in dose, and will continue to crave and desire the drug for years afterward (even for the rest of their lives).

Physical dependence is relatively easy to get over. Addiction is not. It’s an important distinction to keep in mind.

[Magiver]

@Qadgop_the_Mercotan

I’ve said my piece in earlier pages about accepted principles of chronic pain management and the benefits/problems with using opioids for that diagnosis. I’m a big advocate for early and frequent use of opioids for significant acute pain, and of course for malignant pain.

But now the question has arisen about how pain-relieving tylenol and ibuprofen are compared to codeine.

Here’s a nice little study demonstrating that ibuprofen relieves pain just as well as Tylenol with Codeine for kids with significant extremity injuries.

As for tylenol (aka APAP, paracetamol), well from this study:

This indicates that tylenol plus codeine gave additional relief to slightly fewer patients than tylenol plus placebo did. One needed to treat 9.1 patients with tylenol plus codeine to give one patient more pain relief than they’d get with just tylenol alone. And it’s interesting to calculate that one would only need to treat about 8.7 patients with tylenol plus placebo to give one patient more pain relief than they’d get from tylenol without placebo.

So we see some evidence that codeine isn’t necessarily better than ibuprofen or tylenol for typical patients.

I’ve never had any luck at all with Tylenol for anything minor like a headache or backache. but then I’ve never taken large doses except in Vicodin. And that was for kidney stones. (7.5 - 750)

Vicodin was the 3rd drug prescribed for the stones. The 2nd was Percocet and I think the 1st was Darvon. Only the Vicodin lasted the full 8 hrs.

Recently I thought I had another stone and was just getting ready to head to the emergency room when 700 mg of Naproxen knocked back the pain never to return (apparently not a stone or it passed).

Aaaaannnyway, are you saying that Tylenol in larger doses is as useful as the additional hydrocodone?

[DrDeth]

@Magiver

Aaaaannnyway, are you saying that Tylenol in larger doses is as useful as the additional hydrocodone?

Maybe, but it has it’s dangers also (overdosing can be deadly) . There’s also something to be said for the slight euphoria, etc associated with the Vicodin.

[Magiver]

@DrDeth

Maybe, but it has it’s dangers also (overdosing can be deadly) . There’s also something to be said for the slight euphoria, etc associated with the Vicodin.

Never got the euphoria, just the constipation. Maybe a little drowsy. I was just flabbergasted at the idea that Tylenol did anything userful let alone work as good as the harder drug in Vicodin.

[Qadgop_the_Mercotan]

@Magiver

Aaaaannnyway, are you saying that Tylenol in larger doses is as useful as the additional hydrocodone?

I’m saying that for many, many people, hydrocodone is no more effective in relieving pain than tylenol is.

Now, it will induce more euphoria, sedation, constipation, respiratory depression, etc. than tylenol does. But for actual pain-fighting ability, it has not been demonstrated to be superior to tylenol.

[WhyNot]

@Qadgop_the_Mercotan

I’m saying that for many, many people, hydrocodone is no more effective in relieving pain than tylenol is.

Now, it will induce more euphoria, sedation, constipation, respiratory depression, etc. than tylenol does. But for actual pain-fighting ability, it has not been demonstrated to be superior to tylenol.

Which, of course, begs for the question: is either one worth a damn?

But I’m not sure anyone actually wants an answer; it might render the psychogenic mechanism of pain medication ineffective.

[Qadgop_the_Mercotan]

@WhyNot

Which, of course, begs for the question: is either one worth a damn?

But I’m not sure anyone actually wants an answer; it might render the psychogenic mechanism of pain medication ineffective.

Tylenol’s pretty effective, when compared to using no pain reliever. But if one is expecting euphoria from using a pain reliever, one will be disappointed by tylenol.

[Magiver]

@Qadgop_the_Mercotan

I’m saying that for many, many people, hydrocodone is no more effective in relieving pain than tylenol is.

Now, it will induce more euphoria, sedation, constipation, respiratory depression, etc. than tylenol does. But for actual pain-fighting ability, it has not been demonstrated to be superior to tylenol.

Wow, I’m just so blown away by this. I’ve literally never gotten any relief from Tylenol at lower dosages compared to Ibuprofen. It never occurred to me to bump up the dosage. I guess I figured if it didn’t work at lower levels and it damaged the liver at much higher levels then something in between wasn’t going do anything except potentially harm the liver.

And now I’m reading the ingredients of Percocet and it seems to be similar to Vicodin. They’re both based on Tylenol and opiods (Oxycodone vs Hydrocodone).

I don’t understand why the Vicodin lasted the full 8 hrs versus the Percocet. Actually looking up Tylenol I see that the max dosage of Vicodin has more Tylenol in it than the max dosage of Percocet.

This has been a huge eye opener. I was surprised that upping the dosage of ibuprofen worked so well and now … acetaminophen can have the same effect.

[Simple_Linctus]

Erm, Magiver, I dunno what you’re understanding there but please don’t up the dosage of tylenol, the theraputic index of it is tiny. Especially if you use it chronically.

I have to say I am still skeptical that we even fully understand how aspirin works. I know it is more effective in me than ibuprofen in equivalent or even somewhat weaker doses, even though they are supposed to work in precisely the same way… I reckon it must have some other mechanism of effect, at least in some people.

In fact I consider it a much better pain-killer than even morphine. What morphine or other opiates does is help you ignore/cope with the pain, by essentially numbing it and changing the sensation of it, but it doesn’t make it go away. Aspirin can actually make the pain disappear sometimes.

[DrDeth]

@Simple_Linctus

Erm, Magiver, I dunno what you’re understanding there but please don’t up the dosage of tylenol, the theraputic index of it is tiny. Especially if you use it chronically.

.

Yes, as little as double the maximum daily dose, plus some booze and whammo- liver failure.

[Magiver]

@DrDeth

Yes, as little as double the maximum daily dose, plus some booze and whammo- liver failure.

The maximum dosage is 4000 mg in a 24 hr period. What I stated is that I found the 650 mg (2 x 325) did nothing for a headache or backache. I’ve never taken more than that exclusively. The Vicodin I’ve taken had 750 mg in it and that’s 2250 mg in a 24 hr period. Still far below the maximum dose.

[Magiver]

why don’t doctors prescribe Tylenol AND Ibuprofen together? that would seen to be a better choice than adding “harder” drugs.

[WhyNot]

@Magiver

why don’t doctors prescribe Tylenol AND Ibuprofen together? that would seen to be a better choice than adding “harder” drugs.

Sometimes they do. That’s what they prescribed for me post c-section.

[Qadgop_the_Mercotan]

@Magiver

why don’t doctors prescribe Tylenol AND Ibuprofen together? that would seen to be a better choice than adding “harder” drugs.

While they’re different chemically, tylenol and NSAIDS (like ibuprofen and aspirin) probably work similarly, by inhibiting prostaglandin production. So one doesn’t always see a lot of extra ‘bang for the buck’ by taking them together.

On occasion I’ll have a patient take tylenol in between their doses of ibuprofen, if they need extra pain relief. But the results aren’t overwhelming.