A researcher in Algaria has contacted me about using one of my photos in a publication. I would like to respond to him correctly as Dr. so-and-so. His name has 4 parts. Which do I use as his surname?
I feel dumb having to ask this…
Not dumb at all. Very reasonable question. I don’t know the answer, but I’m very interested in finding out.
You could ask David Eddings, but he’s dead.
I have no idea if the wiki for 'Arabic name’ will be helpful, but I certainly learned a bit reading it.
Just to clarify - you mean his name is something like “Abdul Wahid Latief Benjelloun”?
Yes. I didn’t want to include his actual name.
Moderator Note
CardboardBoxx, it is against the rules of General Questions to make jokes before the question has received a factual answer. Do not do this again.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
If he’s got four names, he’s probably using a traditional form, which doesn’t really directly translate into English usage. But, some Arabic “names” are actually parts of a compound. For example, if he’s got “ibn” or “bin” or something phonetically equivalent in his name, that’s “son (of)”, with the name that follows being his father’s name. If he’s got multiple instances of “ibn”/“bin”, it’s X son of Y son of Z etc. The first instance of ibn/bin Y in a name with that format is usually a fair substitute for an English-style surname.
So, in CairoCarol’s example, addressing him as Dr. Benjelloun is probably reasonable. If it were Abdul Wahid bin Latief bin Jelloun, that would literally be, “Abdulwahid, son of Latief, son of Jelloun”, and you’d probably address him in English as Dr. Latief.
(In that example, BTW, “Abdul Wahid” is actually one name, 'abd al-Wahid. 'abd or Abd or the phonetic equivalent is literally “servant (of)”; “al” or “ul” or the phonetic equivalent is the definite article, and the following “name” is typically one of the 99 traditional names of Allah. 'abd al-Wahid is literally “servant of the Absolute One”. It’s treated as a single name in usage, Abdulwahid. The example that’s probably more familiar to English speakers is Abdullah, which is 'abd-Allah, “Servant of the One God”.)
Oh, and the Arabic language, as they say, stretches from the Gulf to the Ocean. There’s enormous variations between dialects and regional conventions and sub-cultures, not to mention enormous variation in Westernization and traditional cultural forms, and for that matter Westernization then de-Westernization. So…
It’s hard to say without seeing the name, but some thoughts (based on having lived in Egypt for over 5 years): if there is an “El” or a “Bin/Ben” as part three, that’s part of the last name. So Abdul Rahman El Maadi would be Dr. El Maadi and Mohammed Rachid Bin Salman would be Dr. Bin Salman.
Other than that, I got nothin’. And I defer to anyone who posts with Arabic skills superior to mine.
ETA: ninja’d. Someone brought me fresh-picked plums while I was in the middle of typing so my post took longer to complete than expected. Worth it, the plums are great!
If he’s a researcher, does he have publications searchable online? A search on something like Google Scholar might provide details of Anglicisations he himself has used when submitting to publications, since academic journals follow a very standardised naming pattern (use with caution - Google Scholar has an automatic citation generator which is not always 100% accurate)
Thanks. This was a really interesting answer, although he doesn’t use “bin”. He is Algerian if that is any help. The last 2 names are “Nait Mohamed”
Good suggestion. He has a number of publications and they seem to use the full 4 names. I guess I will respond with “Dear Dr.” and include all 4 names. I don’t think I can go wrong that way…
Latimera, you could also send CairoCarol and/or gdave a private message.
I’m happy to help but I think gdave knows more than I do. While I do know the meanings of some of the names (at least in colloquial Egyptian Arabic) - “Wahid” is “one” for example - I left Egypt in 2007 and haven’t used a word of Arabic since, so I’m definitely not the best source if you can find others.
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I wrote back using his full name, which clearly was fine as he has already responded and I have provided the requested photo and he has promised me a copy of the publication. Maybe I’ll just ask him my question about his name…I’m curious now…
OK. I wrote to him and asked. He said that the last two names (Nait Mohamed) are his last name. So Dr. Nait Mohamed is correct, but using all 4 names like I did was equally correct. Ignorance successfully fought!
I think that’s probably your best bet. You could try googling his full name and see if you get any hits about him and you might find the Dr ____ version of his name. Otherwise, if it were me, I’d find a way to add some line towards the end of a message that includes the word Doctor (ie thank you, doctor) and put an asterisk next to it. Below the sign off, I’d include something along the lines of *PS, what’s your preferred title? Dr. Nait Mohamed or something else? Thanks again
Think about it from an American stand point. If your name was John Terry Smith and someone (especially from foreign speaking country) asked if they should call you Dr Terry Smith, you’d likely respond that Dr Smith would work fine.
I think it’s safe to assume most people outside of the area/country/continent don’t use four names and that it can cause some confusion.
A happy ending! And we get to share in your ignorance-reduction too…
One thing I find fascinating is that Arab Christians also have Arabic names like Suheil, Amer, etc. This is unlike Christian names from places like Philippines or other Asian countries where they usually use an anglicized name.
I don’t know if it’s all that surprising. After all, non-English Europeans, or Indians don’t use anglicised names either.
The only Arabic (and I believe, often Muslim) name that somewhat surprises me in its relative commonness. is “Issa”. Which means Jesus