Hi, all. We’re looking into getting a puppy for Christmas - yes, yes, I know, but we’ll be responsible pet owners. We’ve thought this through, and we’re ready. We will certainly be looking at the Humane Society and other animal shelters, but we’re also thinking about purebreds. My wife thinks we’re looking for a beagle, but she’s deluded. They’re loud. Anyway, looking online has brought up some pretty shady-looking sites, and I was wondering if anyone knows of any reliable ways to find actual quality breeders online. Thanks!
I’d start with this: Go to the national breed club page, find out who are the regional contacts in your area for the breed, see if there is an overlap between those people and the regional breed rescue contacts, and if so, put them at the top of your list to call.
Remember, depending on what you’re interested in, there are lots of purebreds in shelters and in rescue groups, and they may have puppies. Maybe not 8 week old puppies, but very possibly older puppies (6 months +) that have outgrown the ‘adorable’ stage and started in the ‘obnoxious’ stage.
Research what the health problems are for the breed you’re interested in, what the appropriate health screenings are, and make sure the breeder can provider proof that the parents have been screened for them.
Looks for someone who breeds for health and temperament, not just conformation/breed standards. If you can find someone who titles (or at least competes) in performance events (agility, tracking, obedience, etc), all the better.
Top breeders often have waiting lists for puppies.
BTW, I don’t think you can do all this in time for this Christmas.
Remember you can get purebreds from rescues. Every breed has breed-specific rescues with plenty of puerbred dogs available – dogs of known temperament.
Are they more interested in selling you a dog or finding appropriate homes for the puppies? A waiting list is always a good sign. They should be asking you at least as many questions as you are asking them. References.
Decide what it is you want in a dog, large or small, couch potato or marathon runner… then find a breed that will suit your needs. Also make a choice based on how the adult dog looks, rather than what the puppy looks like. All puppies are cute.
You can also go to dog shows and speak to people actively working with various breeds.
Health screenings as someone else mentioned, things like CERF (eyes) and OFA (hips)
IMHO, reputable breeders will also make you sign a contract stating that if anything happens and you are no longer able to take care of the dog, then you have to return the dog to them (and also have it spayed/neutered).
All of this takes a while but all good things come to those who wait. So if you carefully research the breed that you want and find a breeder who is interested in the health and welfare of the dogs they produce rather than making cash, you’ll be much happier in the long run.
If you see “AKC papers, first shots and worming” run for the hills. Don’t go to pet stores and don’t get a puppy from newspaper ads.
Or get a dog from a shelter or rescue. Good shelters and rescues can help to properly match a pet to your lifestyle. And it’s an awesome thing to do,
there are too many wonderful dogs out there that are put to sleep simply because of lack of room.
If you live in an area with enough small towns/cities, just use the classifieds. Over the phone, the only commitment you make is that you want to come and look at their pups. You get to see first hand how the pups are kept, the condition of the mother, and sometimes the father. There’s no sales pressure, you just arrange for 10 minutes of a guy’s time on a Saturday or something. If you don’t like what you see, back out - “I really should check this over with my family first, but thanks for your time, great dogs.” In my experience these are almost always small/private sales, not people who breed dogs with any sort of regularity. And these are purebreds with papers too. The above process is how I’ve purchased almost every Labrador I’ve even owned.
If I may get on my self richeous soap box.
The reason why all these dog breeders look shady to you is because they ARE all shady. Dog breeders are not good people IMHO.
Seriously, go to a shelter or a rescue place. A purebred isn’t going to fulfill your life any more than your average pup would.
IMHO, not a good way to get a dog from a reputable breeder. Good breeders (rare as they are) do not need to advertise anywhere. They make “sales” based on reputation and word of mouth, they also participate in activities like dog shows, conformation and breed specific competitions. If you go through a breeder that breeds for show, most are willing to adopt out "pet quality’ animals to good homes.
The Humane Society has a good checklist:
http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_adoption_information/how_to_find_a_good_dog_breeder/
Just an FYI, rescues do get purebred puppies. We recently adopted out 2 pure bloodhound puppies and 2 treeing walker coon hound puppies.
Since it may be a little late to get for Christmas, why don’t you make part of the gift telling the family that you have decided it is time for a dog and have everyone in on the selection process?
‘Reputable’ breeders don’t make mixes on purpose. Cockapoos, maltipoos, yorkiepoos, goldendoodles, etc, are not bred by reputable breeders.
Also, think about a mixed breed puppy. The shelter may not be able to tell you 100% what the dog is, but they are just as lovable as a pure-bred. One of my best friends has a lab/chow mix. She was initially put off with the chow part, but Riley is just the world’s best dog. It all depends on the effort you put into it, they took her to training classes, socialized her well, etc. Riley is my go-to dog for education classes. She likes nothing better than to sit in a room with kids and be mauled with little hands wanting to pet her. She doesn’t really need a leash, she heels perfectly, etc…
“Purebred” doesn’t mean a damned thing. Some of the stupidest, most vicious, neurotic, health challenged dogs I’ve ever known were “purebred.” Unless you’re ponying up a grand or more to buy from a breeder whose bitch and sire are both AKC champions (and who is highly unlikely to sell to you unless you intend to show–their reputation is based on how well their pups do in the ring) you’re basically supporting a backyard breeder or a puppy mill. Don’t. If you absolutely must, work with a breed rescue that fosters their dogs out and keep your mind open to an older puppy, six months to a year old. It’s the perfect age to adopt a dog, their personalities are readily discernable, they’re probably already housebroken and might even have some basic obedience training.
Mutt pups are the best dogs–there’s a lot to be said for hybrid vigor. Plus, if you get a dog who knows what it’s like to be a homeless stray they’ll bond to you like velcro and be the most cohesive family member ever. I say this as the owner of a border/jack rescue dog, a lab/husky shelter dog and two rescued cats.
Also, the holidays are a miserable time to try to incorporate a dog into your household–it’s already at sixes and sevens and it’s a bear trying to get the dog into the routine. Go puppy shopping after the new year, and spend Christmas day on Petfinder.com looking for likely candidates.
Good luck! (Oh, and I agree about the beagles–not only loud but stubborn and kinda dumb in my experience.)
Another thing to consider, many popular and some semi-rare breeds have owners clubs in most cities. If you’re looking for a Bulldog in Phoenix, say, google Phoenix Bulldog club, then shoot them a call or an email asking for reputable breeders and rescues in the area.
Most of these people will have had both good and bad experiences and will be downright eager to offer their opinions. You may even find a breeder or two who are members of the club. I know our local Bulldog club has several full and part-time breeders who are top notch and really love the dogs they produce.
Jesus, I could hardly call these people “breeders” because they really aren’t. People who take out classified ads for pups (roughly a dozen words and a phone number) are VERY VERY often people who have a bitch and decide to have a litter of puppies. This is something they may do once or twice in their lives. The stud fee for folks like this is usually giving the owner of the stud pick of the litter or the equivalent price.
I’ve live in a couple states in the mid west, and this is how it is here. Every time this comes up online I encounter bizarrely hostile people ranting about puppy mills. Maybe this happens outside of rural Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, and Minnesota, ect - but it’s not the reality I’ve seen when looking to buy a AKC dog - usually beagles, labs, and other hunting/family pups. It really sucks if it’s not this laid back and ethical elsewhere.
Everyone’s giving great advice. My $.02 is just local, local, local. I DO know a couple (literally two) people I would consider reputable breeders. As much as I dislike the use of breeders, if they were all like these two then purebreds wouldn’t be an issue.
Good breeders only do it to perpetuate the perfection of the breed
Good breeders will ALWAYS want you to come to their home where they can check YOU out as much as you can check THEM out.
Good breeders will NEVER ship an animal EVER.
Good breeders DO NOT make money from their litters and in fact PLAN to LOSE money for the sake of perpetuating the perfection of the breed.
Good breeders will encourage you to spay/neuter if they don’t make sure it’s done before selling the dog (which may make for an older puppy, but a well-cared for one that’s been in a well-socialized home all its life and maybe even trained a little since it’s probably been around other show dogs - and that’s a very good thing!
The two I know are show judges and and have each only kept one breed of dog.
If all of the above criteria are not met, RUN THE OTHER WAY as fast as possible.
If you can’t visit a breeder locally, consider other options and keep your mind open to different breeds you can get locally.
Of course, shelters and rescues will always be my first advice. The City of Chicago has to kill over 15,000 dogs every year. Just one city, folks.
Drastic_Quench:
“Jesus, I could hardly call these people “breeders” because they really aren’t. People who take out classified ads for pups (roughly a dozen words and a phone number) are VERY VERY often people who have a bitch and decide to have a litter of puppies. This is something they may do once or twice in their lives. The stud fee for folks like this is usually giving the owner of the stud pick of the litter or the equivalent price.”
But they are breeders and very poor examples of them.
Reputable breeders work for the betterment of the breed they are interested in. That’s why litters are so carefully planned.
They want to ensure that any dogs they produce are healthy, have a solid temperament, proper conformation and and excel in the occupation they were originally intended for (labs and hunting/retrieving for ex).
They also care what happens to their dogs. That’s why they require them to be spayed and neutered. That’s why they carefully vet potential owners and that’s why they require that the dog be returned to them should the owner not be capable of taking care of it anymore.
The breeders that you’re describing do none of the above. They dump a puppy on anyone who comes up with enough cash. They don’t do proper health testing, don’t look for sound temperament, conformation and physical abilities, don’t look for a good match between owner and dog and they don’t care what happens to the dog once it leaves their property.
Drastic_Quench:
“I’ve live in a couple states in the mid west, and this is how it is here. Every time this comes up online I encounter bizarrely hostile people ranting about puppy mills. Maybe this happens outside of rural Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, and Minnesota, ect - but it’s not the reality I’ve seen when looking to buy a AKC dog - usually beagles, labs, and other hunting/family pups. It really sucks if it’s not this laid back and ethical elsewhere.”
The AKC serves as a registry for dog pedigrees. That’s all. The only thing AKC papers will tell you is that the dog is a purebred. AKC papers are in no way an indication that you are buying a well-bred dog which is what you seem to be implying.
As for puppy mills, they’re terrible, not only because of the conditions in which they warehouse their dogs but because they contribute to the rather large over population of pets in this country.
That said, breeders like the ones you describe do the same. If you don’t think a lot of the puppies you see in classified ads don’t wind up in shelters and rescues, you’re wrong.
And they wind up there because owners don’t want to pay for veterinary costs they can’t afford, because the dog and owner aren’t a good match, because a good temperament was never there in the first place, because their home situation wasn’t suitable for a pet etc. All of which could be avoided if people bought puppies from responsible breeders.
drastic quench
It’s not just “puppy mills” we folks are railing against, it’s irresponsible breeding of any kind.
So lets say I have an AKC lab. She is beautiful and pretty much a good dog (except when she runs away). I got her from a pet store. I decide that because she is so pretty, I could probably make a few bucks by having a litter before I have her spayed. I put an add in the paper looking for a stud, or I respond to an ad for an AKC lab stud.
She goes into heat. We arrange the stud service and she is pregnant. When the puppies come, you have 5 little examples of irresponsible breeding. There is generally no interview process to place them into homes, whomever has the cash can have a pup. There is no spay/neuter agreement, so in the next year, we could potentially have 25 more examples of irresponsible breeding, and the cycle continues.
Using labs as an example, they generally don’t get hip certification until they are 2 yrs or older, so there is a good chance that the parents haven’t had their hips and elbows certified. Certification also costs money, I doubt a “one time breeder” is going to shell out that kind of money for multiple x-rays from the vet and the independent certification process for a dog they plan on breeding once or twice, it would just cut in to their profit. Labs are also prone to eye problems, and reputable breeders know (shell out the money) which dogs carry the gene for PRA, which can cause blindness, and don’t breed those dogs. This test alone costs $150-200. Again, too much $$ for a hobby breeder to shell out.
Irresponsible breeders do not have a contract that states that in the event that you no longer are able to care for the dog, you are to return it to the breeder. Good breeders care about the dog for it’s lifespan, not just it’s puppy hood.
I do rescue, I see purebreds in shelters, I see people irresponsibly breeding dogs and calling us to take the litters they can’t care for. I see purebred females dumped at the shelter because they are no longer profitable, nipples distended and deformed from over breeding.
I also know people whom I would call responsible breeders. A good friend of mine is a breeder of Australian Shepherds. She is deeply involved in rescue and conformation. She breeds once every 3-4 years and all of her puppies have homes before they are born. Another woman I know breeds and shows whippets, I know her through rescue.
My trainer breeds champion bull terriers. She is well-known as a show judge and serves on the board of a local rescue as well as being on the PA Dog Law Advisory Board. She breeds for temperament and to breed standard, and rarely has puppies.
BTW-I love beagles. Yes, they are loud, but are truly loving and affectionate dogs. They are great with kids and other animals. They are trainable and do well in households with a lot of activity and don’t do well alone for long periods of time.
Just spent well under a grand getting a purebred golden, from a long-time breeder who had 1 litter this year, bred out of champs back several generations, cleared for hips, elbows, eyes, heart, thyroid. So we ended up with a pup that is exactly what we wanted, and that we will be able to train to be exactly the dog we want.
Was watching a “Dog Whisperer” disc the other day, and he said something along the lines of “There’s a good chance that a dog you get from a shelter is going to have problems, because the majority of people do not get rid of perfect dogs.” I agree.
The idiots who harp on about the nobility of rescuing dogs, and rail against all breeders have no idea how silly they sound.
I should clarify my poorly-worded OP…
Our plan is to first check out animal shelters and look for a dog we’d be happy with. I’m worried that this might not work, though, firstly because there are very few shelters in the area, so selection will be limited, and secondly because we are leaning heavily toward a puppy rather than a full-grown. I know, it would be more noble to get a full-grown dog in need of love. We’re just not that noble. At least not this time around. This will be our first dog as a family, and we’d like one to kind of grow with us.
So the point of the thread was to ask how, if the shelter thing doesn’t work out, I can find another source of dog that I can trust. I used the word “purebred” simply because I think most breeders deal in specific breeds. We’re not too fussy about it. We’d be perfectly happy with a great mutt. Anyway, I think the way I worded it caused some confusion.
As for whether we’re sure we’re ready, we are. My wife and I have both been dog owners in the past, so we know what’s involved, and we’re in our own home with two acres to run around on, so we’re in a good situation here. I also realize we won’t be able to get it in the house by Christmas - we’re just going to let the Boy know that we’re getting one, and then let him help us pick it out and go from there.
I just wanted to clarify those points, but I’m getting good advice, which I appreciate. Thanks!
And for every good hobby breeder who actually does a good job there are about fifty morons who have two crap examples of “purebred” dogs who let them breed every time the bitch comes in heat. Dogs that would be gated in the first thirty seconds of their first puppy class are allowed to breed–because they’re “purebred.” It means nothing.
Most of the “imperfection” of dogs in shelters is that they’re INCONVENIENT. They’re part of a litter that happened because someone’s too stupid to spay their bitch and their neighbor refuses to neuter his dog. Whoops, puppies! Off to the shelter with them, along with the giant breed dogs belonging to people who’ve moved to a place that won’t allow their dog, or who’ve lost their jobs and can’t afford dog food. I have a very nice lab/husky mix dog sleeping on my foot right now who was picked up as a stray pup down near Salem, moved to the Portland shelter, adopted by a nice couple who really thought a 9 month old lab/husky mix would be perfectly okay living in a one bedroom apartment, then rehomed to me because I have the room and the experience to take on a dog of his nature. Not a damned thing wrong with him, just inconvenient.
My other dog, a border collie/Jack Russell mix, came from a rescue who has his siblings available every year because the owner of his mother refuses to spay her dog. Year after year this bitch has a litter, sometimes two, and they end up in the same rescue trying to find homes because of course the owner doesn’t see any reason why SHE should figure out where the pups should go. Why should she care if those pups get shot because they run wild and chase stock, or get run over, or eaten by coyotes?
Both of my dogs are intelligent, well trained, happy, well adjusted, healthy and exactly what I wanted. Any person with discernment and experience can pick out a good dog from a neurotic one, that’s no great trick. Any person with sense, patience and experience can train a dog to do pretty much anything, that’s no great trick either. There’s absolutely nothing special about your dog, aside from the fact that the breeder is doing the work of producing reliable pups so the people that buy them don’t need to have skill or experience.
And if you really can’t see that every dog bought from a backyard hobby breeder or a pet store means one more dog that will likely be gassed in a shelter, and that continuing to buy from these people just encourages them to keep breeding these inferior specimens of “purebred” dogs to the detriment of their breeds and the detriment of abandoned dogs everywhere then I’d have to say that we have fundamentally different points of view.
As one of “the idiots” who spends many hours each week volunteering for a breed specific rescue I can tell you that the reason most people get rid of their dogs is absolutley not because they have problems. I won’t speak for all rescues or shelters but for us the number one reason dogs enter our rescue program is that the owner, due to jobs, a new family, etc., no longer has time for the dog. Number two is that they are moving and can not take the dog with them. After that comes: a divorce in the family, death of the owner, finanical hardships leaving them unable to feed or vet the dog, allergies (normally a baby comes after the dog and is found to be allergic) and a host of other reasons. Coming in at number *ten *is the dog is too active/has too much energy for the family which could be said to be a “problem” a home not looking for an active, bouncy dog.
The fact is that the majority of people who get rid of their dogs are getting rid of dogs that have no problems.
Well, the OP asked about finding a reputable breeder. Did you miss that part? There are tons of stupid people out there - getting dogs, breeding dogs, not getting their dogs fixed. If you are looking for a dog and are unable to tell the diff betw a reputable breeder and the morons you describe, well, you are a moron as well.
And once the dogs are treated as inconvenient and placed in shelters, they get to develop additional problems that need to be trained out of them.
I’ve got no problem with people rescuing dogs if that is what is best for them. But to suggest that someone is wrong who decides to get a specific breed from a reputable breeder, yeah, our POVs do differ fundamentally.
What additional problems do they develop in a shelter that need to be trained out of them? And if they are placed there due to being an inconvenience what were their original problems that they now develop “additional” ones?