I don’t have to provide you any examples since I’m not making an argument on it. The argument was made here that an 1864 map compared to a 2008 map is supposed to show us something.
Ok, then what does a 1980-84-88-92-96 map tell us? Presidential, congressional, gubernatorial etc.
Apparently, those maps tell us nothing.
Not much of a definition then.
No. I never posted any maps. You quoted me asserting that the Dixiecrats of 1948 presaged a move of conservative southern racists from D to R.
You said, “Yet they continued to vote D in governorship, state and local elections well into the 90s. Hmm…”
So you can’t cite any actual examples, and you’re talking to me about maps.
You seem deeply confused on this issue.
I quoted whoever said it. I don’t quote you. Well, not you. Then whoever posted those maps.
I think it’s easy enough to google electoral maps to see that Southern states continued to vote D in other elections.
The point is, if the argument is that Southern States vote R today, and hence there is a link between that and racism that existed in the South, than one really needs to look at how they actually voted.
Most southern states voted D in 1964. The shift to R happened in 1972…just as it happened for the whole country, not just the South. They voted D again in 1976. Then they switched back to R, like most of the rest of the US until 1992, when many of them switched back to D for 1992-1996. Since 2000 they have been mostly R (but also several Southern states switched back to D in 2012).
So we have a track record of them voting plenty of times both D and R since 1964. And at the state elections, D’s were mostly dominant up until the 1990s.
So there’s nothing to be gained by looking at these. Either both Ds and Rs are “racists”, or this doesn’t actually mean anything.
A.I.G. - you quoted me in post 70 and replied. What the fuck are you talking about?
Yes, you said “conservative whites left the democratic party because of their opposition to civil rights”. To which I replied “and yet they continued to vote D”.
And you object to this, why?
Now you’re just playing games.
This doesn’t refute anything I said. In the perception of black people, the Republicans used to be the party ‘on the side’ of black people, with Democrats the enemies of black people. Since the middle of the 20th century, that perception has shifted.
Who is trying to spin this? The Republicans used to be the party that advocated for black people against the racist Democrats, but that’s the past, and that ended in the mid-20th.
What are you responding to? What did I say that defends the disgustingly racist Democratic party of the past? The Democrats were, for most of American history, disgusting racists (as a political party), and the Republicans were not. That was in the past. Black people are aware of this, and they’re aware of where the parties have stood since the mid-20th century.
From what I can tell you’re arguing with a straw man and not anything I posted, since my post was historically accurate. The voting patterns of black people before the VRA and CR tell us very little about who black people actually wanted to vote for, since so many black people were disenfranchised (by Democratic politicians) before than.
Ask them which party had the first Black president?
Seriously, you can “prove” anything you want to prove. I read a book called “What if Christ had never existed?” that “proved” every good thing every done was done by Christians. Did you know many “experts” agree that Beethoven was history’s greatest musician? (Nobody who thinks that is an expert. Everyone who knows anything about music knows that Mozart has that title sewed up, probably forever).
Poppycock. It’s Jimi and you know it.
Pure applesauce.
Well first of all, you’re probably wasting your time. You usually can’t logic someone out of a place that they didn’t logic their way into.
But, from a simple point of view, I’d just say that one party is going in the right direction and the other isn’t.
Or, link them to this article:
Well, you are welcomed to give us example #105,005 of a conservative that sees no problem at all there.
As I pointed before, racists do count on that kind of “see no evil” “hear no evil” attitude from many conservatives, it allows the racists to continue to be a power in politics.
Is this really the formulation for your political views, which you proudly wear like a badge of honor around here? It sounds like you were indoctrinated into political thought as a youngster and have never bothered to question your conclusions ever since.
The GOP is the party of “individual liberty” and “individual responsibility”…really? Have you been paying attention these last several decades?
Which party wishes to deny individuals the liberty to marry who they choose, and favors a national referendum limiting the individual choice to only someone of the opposite gender?
Which party opposes respecting state level regulation of marijuana and shows no desire to ease the federal prohibition on personal drug use?
Which party opposes a federal mandate to have individual health care as the personal responsibility of each American, notwithstanding its genesis as a Republican idea?
I could go on, but the GOP long ago gave up “individual liberty” for “impose Christian morals on the people”. And “personal responsibility” seems to have made way for “its an affront to freedom to ask me to incur any debt to society as a concession for my participation”.
I would also note that you didn’t even try with “fiscal responsibility”, since that is plainly not a Republican plank anymore. Your comments not only poison the well of reasoned discourse (I promise that no Democratic supporter refers to federal programs as “imposed solutions from the overlords above” but maybe the GOP did so after No Child Left Behind - an unfunded federal education mandate - was passed), but it utterly ignores that reality of late 20th/early 21st century American politics.
I don’t call enslaving people into generational poverty getting better.
They’re not. Black people aren’t dupes – they are just as smart as everyone else, and have the same capability to rationally choose political parties to represent them. They have legitimate reasons for shunning the Republican party.
Throughout American history, black people were, as a group, the best source for accurate and truthful information about the plight of black people in America. And throughout American history, white people were, as a group, a pretty poor source for accurate and truthful information about the plight of black people in America. It’s a track record of centuries, and I see no reason to believe it’s reversed itself today.
Or at least, that’s what white Democratic pols tell themselves as they pat themselves on the back. Ask black voters in Missouri what they think of (Democratic Governor) Jay Nixon right now.
Republicans want to live on Lincoln’s rep. Democrats boast that they have Dems in their coalition, then take them for granted. The question both groups of privileged white folk ignore is what they’re doing for the downtrodden and despised now, and in the next term.
Seriously, there’s good reason for blacks in this country to despise both parties.
Let’s see if I have this straight: From the mid 19th to the mid 20th centuries, the Republican party was liberal and the Democratic party was conservative. Therefore Republicans are good and Democrats are evil.
Slavery is making people work without giving them money. Welfare is giving people money without making them work.
Yes. That’s the claim being made by the people who post the image in the OP.
I’d probably say something like “So you think Obamacare is equivalent to slavery?” Because that’s the level of discourse on Facebook.
But the main thing I’d note beyond what everyone else has said is that, even if Republicans support good things, it doesn’t mean everything they don’t support is bad.
That is the underlying assumption here–what Republicans don’t like is bad. yet they’ve offered no evidence of that. They have offered evidence that what Republicans like is good, even if that evidence is wrong for other reasons.