There’s a large orange fellow telling them otherwise, and wouldn’t you know, he just happens to be the guy pushing the wall as a solution.
You’re failing to take into account the conspiracy theories about the “3 million illegal voters”. Once again, complete bollocks, but a lot of them really believe it.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/30/politics/trump-panel-voter-fraud-new-day-cnntv/index.html
“We need a wall like President Trump is building. That’s why I’m going to vote for him again, to make sure the wall gets finished!”
Maybe, but I tend to take people at their word. If a guy tells me he supports Trump because he believes Trump’s policies will make it so his taxes don’t support illegal aliens, that’s the argument I want to be able to counter.
Fair enough, but recognize that addressing the ostensible reason alone probably won’t work if their real reason is hidden. One of the reasons so many people above say there’s no point in even trying to talk to them is that, if they’re biased, that bias will motivate them to find problems with any solution you might present. You can’t win an argue with someone who isn’t arguing honestly, because they don’t care if logic and facts on on their side or not. They don’t have “reasons”, they have excuses.
That won’t register. You’re telling them that immigrants and illegal immigrants can’t *legally *vote. That doesn’t address the fear in their minds that they will illegally vote. Trump voters believe that all kinds of illegal things happen and laws are circumvented all the time.
To them, what you just said makes as little sense as, “Why are you worried about ex-felons using guns to kill you? They can’t ***legally ***buy a gun with which to kill you.”
(Bolding mine) No, I’m not telling them that, because they’re not telling me anything about voting. They’re telling me about their taxes supporting illegals. However …
… I concede it’s likely there are other, equally ill-founded beliefs behind that one. I realize it’s probably pointless to even get into it with them. (And I should point out that with one or two exceptions everyone has been quite civil.) I just hate the feeling that, after I walk away, they’re probably thinking, ha, I set that libtard straight!
Tell him Trump’s wall will cost sixty billion dollars and Mexico won’t pay for it. American tax payers are going to pay it. Point out that his share will be two hundred dollars. That’s for just him; if he’s got a wife and kids, it’s two hundred dollars for each of them as well.
…and then add, “…and that’s only if those deadbeats (wink optional but encouraged) pay their fair share!”
No, they say it out loud. Have you been reading Annoyed’s posts? He says Democrats wants to let immigrants in from countries like Mexicans because they’re Democrats. He says Trump should respond by letting in more immigrants from countries like Poland because they’re Republicans.
I don’t think in the space of time that you have with a potential voter, you will be able to change his or her mind about anything. It is still probably worth having a conversation.
When having a discussion with someone with an opposing viewpoint, I’ve read that it is helpful to listen and make them feel heard and then to emphasize your shared goals. I bet that you two agree that
[ul]
[li]America should have a just and enforceable immigration system[/li][li]The current system is neither fair nor easily enforceable and[/li][li]Every American should be vigilant and concerned that taxes paid by hardworking citizens aren’t being squandered.[/li][/ul]
If the person seems receptive, you can use this to lead to why you think your candidate’s approach to address these issues is a good one.
BUT, I wouldn’t push to try to get that far. I might just listen, let them talk, re-phrase to let them know you understood what they said, and chat about what you have in common.
You’re wasting your time IMO. Pretty much all the stuff the right stands for is at root about identity politics. Immigration, guns, welfare, crime, etc. is all a way for them to reject those scary, lazy ‘others’.
Immigration is bothersome to them because it means a bunch of brown skinned foreigners are living in ‘their’ america.
You can’t win. As of 2019 the democratic party is the party of multiculturalism and the GOP is the party of white identity politics. You can’t win people over who subscribe to white identity politics to get them to vote for a party of multiculturalism.
N/M
I trust that when you say I’m wasting my time, you mean in trying to engage with a Trump voter, and not the whole canvassing process.
But even then I’m inclined to disagree. I know I’m never going to change anyone’s mind on the spot, but if I can demonstrate an open-minded willingness to engage on an issue a voter says is important, maybe I can also demonstrate that there’s a sensible other side to the issue he or she may not have considered. Maybe that’s the beginning of a long process ending on election day next year with someone taking a few extra seconds before checking that R box … or not.
Likely? No. But, as I said to my wife, “it’s that or beat them to death with my clipboard.”
I think you are aleady on to part of this: you aren’t going to change any opinion on the spot. It takes people time to change their mind. But if they hear it from you, it sticks around. After a while, they won’t remember they heard it from you, but they will remember hearing it.
You can also slightly change the track their thinking on the subject runs on. “If you had to choose, would you prefer we try to stop people at the border, or we eliminate access to your tax dollars by illegals.”
Sure as shit not with that attitude you can’t. That’s quitter talk.
Akaj, I was very sincere in my earlier post. If you want to start to break down the barriers? Don’t push back. Just ask questions - not leading ones - and listen. Most people - doesn’t matter the political persuasion - just want a chance to speak and be heard.
Simply by reaching out and listening, some small segment of the people you’re talking to will become more willing to then accept what you say. So ask questions, speak little, and be empathetic to what they’re saying. Sometimes it’ll be hard. But give them a chance to be heard. A great many people choose extreme positions because they feel disenfranchised. Allow them your time and make clear you hear them with understanding. It will work. Not on everyone and not all the time, but it’ll work. I do it myself fairly often.
Try directing them here.
I like this approach – thanks again.
Nice source – I should brush up on these myself. Thanks for the link!
Ask them why they think illegal immigrants come here.
If they agree that the answer is “jobs” ask them if they think companies should be fined for employing illegals and if company executives should face jail time.
If they agree to that ask them why they think Trump and congress are so weak on prosecuting these companies. Companies are currently being prosecuted at a rate of just one employer for every one million undocumented persons. Jail time for executives is extremely rare to almost non-existent.
Democrats aren’t much better as neither party seems interested in getting tough with those flagrantly breaking employment laws.
So if illegal immigration is really these voters #1 issue they really need to ask why their party is doing next to nothing in stopping illegal employment and is more focused on giving them more tax breaks and accepting their big corporate donations.