How do illegal aliens lease apartments (and other things)?

Factual Questions
1

I used to live in an apartment complex in Georgia where most of my neighbors by the time I moved were Spanish speakers. I won’t say they were all illegal, but I’m positive at least one family was- when the father was arrested for a d.u.i. the entire family was deported. The odd thing is that when I moved into this apartment complex (which was neither luxurious nor a slum but a pretty solid middle-class 1970s-ish complex) I know for a fact that the office checked my credit, my employer, and my previous landlord.

How would an illegal alien lease an apartment? Most have no money, none have valid SSNs, most have no driver’s licenses, they work largely for cash, they can’t have much by way of credit and the like- how do they find places to live that aren’t privately owned or cash only places.

For that matter, how do they buy cars? Even if they have the cash you still have to register it which in most states requires proof of insurance which in all requires a driver’s license and DLs require birth certificates or proof of citizenship/resident alien status (don’t they?). How do they enroll their kids in school? How do they do anything that requires official paperwork?

I recently got a car placed in my name that belonged to my mother four (4) months after I paid the *@#$$*ING thing off because of all the red-tape and paperwork problems. (I literally had to, among other things, get a form notarized that said T. Jonathan Sampiro and Thomas Jonathan Sampiro was the same person (the fact T. Jonathan and Thomas Jonathan had the same address/dob/SSN could have just been coincidence) and the same for my mother- that Blanche L. Sampiro born 9-10-1934/died 08/19/2006 in fact was the same person as Blanche Lampton Sampiro born 9-10-1934/died 08/19/2006, and I had to have all manner of documents faxed from the finance company, signed and notarized by my sister (the estate executrix) stating that the estate released its hold on the car and that the monies I paid it off with were my own, and then (I kid you not) that when she signed Katherine S. Meredith as estate rep on the transfer paper that she really was the same as Katherine Sampiro Meredith on another form I’d had to fill out. Now if I, a legal citizen transacting legitimate business, have to jump through this many hoops to get something as simple as a car title in my name, how in the hell do illegal Guatemalans register a car or get a license or any other type of official documentation?

2

WAG based one what I’ve seen of Portuguese and Polish immigrants: one official person gets it’s all in his name. Usually the provider of the services (myself in the cases I’ve seen) knows what’s going on, and as long as no laws are being broken and there’s no coercion going on, I’m happy to go ahead and do what they’re requesting.

IMO You may find building owners run a slightly different rule book with ‘illegals’ given the amount of custom they can gain.

3

They lie. That’s all there is to it.

You have so many misconceptions, and make so many assumptions it’s almost comical.

I’m married to a Brazilian national, we had to jump through the 9 hoops of hell to get her “green card”, legally, and that was AFTER we were married, paying thousands of dollars, standing in god awful lines and being treated like criminals the whole time.

Other people just went and paid to get either phony documents, or better yet “recycled documents”

Like so:

Mr. Undocumented American (or what ever the PC term is now a days) can’t get a good job delivering pizzas without a SS# . So he goes and sees “a man” This man has a SS card with an ethnically appropriate name on it that is IN FACT real. The man makes a pretty authentic looking drivers license with that name on it, and he gives to our jobless friend (for a price). Our friend goes to the pizza place and fills out an application using the documents. The pizza place doesn’t do a background check, and when the income is reported to the IRS nothing “pops” after all it’s a legit SS number. Soon our friend gets his first paycheck. He takes it to a local check-cashing place and cashes it. He takes that cash to a bank and uses the 3 documents he has to open a checking account. (The SS#, The ID card and – the holy grail – a REAL pay check stub from a local business). Then – he goes to an apartment complex that isn’t too “up scale” and inquires about a place to live. He fills out the application. He has all the right documents. An ID card, an SS card, A few paycheck stubs and a checking account. Often that’s IT, they take his $25 for a credit check and pocket the money but don’t actually run one and go ahead and rent him the place –OR- they DO run one based on that name and SS#. Low and behold nothing “pops” on the credit report so they rent him the place. Now our friend needs a car. He doesn’t go to any main line factory authorized dealer. He goes to “Honest Johns- WE finance” used cars. He shows them his pay stubs, his ss#, his checkbook, his electricity, cable and rent receipts and POW – since they all match, he buys a car. Now after a few short months, he has a job, a car, a place to live, a checking account and actually pays taxes (thanks to that recycled SS#). And life for our friend is WAY better for him. Sweet! No standing in lines, no paying for filing fees, no criminal scrutiny. If he lays low, he can send money home until such a time as he can afford to bring his wife and kids up here and they can live happily ever after. In the mean time, he might start up his own business, pay more money to get a birth certificate that has his REAL NAME ON IT, and start the process over, only now with his own name, with that he can register for a legit SS#, and with that a real drivers license etc. etc. etc. If he gets busted, the SS# goes back into circulation because he sells it.

I have seen this done. It happens every day. Right under your nose.

NOBODY with that much to lose would even pursue the car you are talking about. NOBODY who was not here legally would get involved in such a thing. Anybody who was in an undocumented state would even consider putting him or herself on the radar like that. Things like you describe don’t happen to them.

On the reverse? I have permanent residence status in Brazil, legally. It was just as hard for me to get there as it was for her to get here, but worse. There they are WAY more strict about your documents than they are here, and if you get caught working the system there – they just throw your ass in prison. No ifs ands or buts. BAM. Mess with the Gov’t there and its 5-10 years in a South American prison. Nice. HERE? – They put you on a bus home. No penalty. You go back to your wife and kids, have a beer and start all over again on Monday.

How did I do it before I got MY documents there? Cash only – Teach English, wash bottles, sell coconuts – whatever to make Reais until I was legal, by doing what I was required to do BY LAW, otherwise I was a criminal and if I was caught, I would be treated as such. Same goes for YOU in any other country, but if you are from some other country that doesn’t go for you here. Thats why we have a gergillion people here that the gov’t doesn’t know about, this place is a cake walk!

BTW

Think about this; How much money does our failing SS system have in it, generated by people who will NEVER be able to claim those benefits when they get old because it wasn’t their number to begin with? Many people use that number over many years, and money gets taken from their paychecks, gets put into the pot – and NONE of them will ever collect a dime. It goes “unclaimed” . So when I turn 70, some of my income will have been supplied by our friend, and all of the hundreds of others who used that number during my lifetime. Thats why we have a gergillion people here from outside. The gov’t LOVES it!

Just something to think about.

4

Or you can even say “sorry, it’s stuck in the system.”

When you join a new job, you need to show your SS card to them within 15 days of starting. The SS card I had from '94-'98 was marked as belonging to a student, so when I went to Philly in '03 I needed to get a new one. A US citizen can do so in the nearest embassy, but a foreigner must do it within the country. Due to the increased security measures, my new card took four months.

At that point I was working in a strategic project, with a salary that’s lowish for US standards (I was the lowest-paid person in the team) but equivalent to a factory manager’s in Spain; based on my workload and performance, my teammates guessed my income at 4x the actual value. If you think my company was willing to let me sit on my ass for 4 months while I waited for the card, you got a new think coming.

So long as the employer or the landlord or… gets enough economic benefit from believing that “you lost your card and the replacement hasn’t arrived yet,” you don’t even need a fake.

5

AMEN JANX! I am still not allowed to be in Brazil longer than 6 months in any given year, and get to be herded into the Americans Only line in Sao Paulo like a frickin criminal.

Anyway, back to the OP. Sampiro, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and possibly Florida have more lax rules for car registration, so anybody can register with a PO box. A LARGE majority of less than legal tradesmen around here will be registered with NC and PA plates.

6

I’m not quite sure what you mean by this. Anyone who lives legally in the US can acquire a SSN. When a temporary resident leaves the country or overstays his visa, he still keeps his SSN card. The number is still “valid” insofar as the Social Security Administration keeps it on record, and must be used again if that person ever returns to the US. The fact that some temporary residents may stay in or return to the US illegally doesn’t invalidate their SSN; it just means that they probably won’t be using it for employment purposes for fear of being discovered by the government.

7

The actual requirement is to complete a form I-9 within 3 days, using any of the eligible documents or combinations of documents, and the employer cannot legally specify which of the eligible documents. Requiring a SS card within 15 days would have been an employer policy, and I’m not sure it would be a legal policy. For example, US citizens can complete the I-9 with a passport, and the employer should not further require the SS card, although I realize that asking for it is a common practice.

Sampiro, I think one of your faulty assumptions is that illegal immigrants have no cash. They often work under the table for cash and are willing to pool their money. Back in the day when I was renting my first apartment, I had the option to either do all the creditworthiness stuff, or pay something like $5-6000 up front to rent a no-frills efficiency for 6 months. As a new college grad, that seemed impossible, but once someone has been working for a while having that kind of savings isn’t out of the question.

Also, purchasing the car isn’t the hard part, it is registering it and getting insurance. If those aren’t priorities, buying the car for cash is not that hard.

8

They get a fake ID, and a fake SSN. Few work “under the table” for cash, and Illegals generally earn what a legal migrant might earn. If a business is caught with Illegals, they can try (and often get away with “plausible deniabilty” where the show the INS copies of the fake docs. If they paid legals twice as much as illegals, then they’d have no “plausible deniabilty”.

9

He asked about Illegals, many of whom sneak in or come in on a tourist visa, not a Green Card. They are not issued SSN’s.

10

I was referring to that subgroup of illegal aliens who were once legal temporary workers, but who overstayed their work visa, or who left the country after their temporary employment and then re-entered illegally. Having worked temporarily in the US myself (and therefore been issued an SSN), I would become such an illegal alien should I decide to re-enter the country on my tourist visa and fail to leave.

And as for green cards, I don’t know what you’re talking about. I never mentioned them and only have a very faint idea of what they are.

11

I’ve never been asked for a SS number for an apartment lease. Or a state issued ID. References or a deposit, yes.

12

** psychonaut ** said,

That’s not usually true. My wife was here for 3 years on an F1 visa, while in school she was not allowed to work outside of the school, after she graduated, she got her F1 modified, but was ONLY allowed to work in her field of study, and then ONLY for 3 years. Then she was “legal” For certain kinds of work for a certain period of time. When an employer submits their I9 forms it better check out or the employer risks getting a fine. In cases like hers, the first 3 digits of the SS# do not designate the state where she was born, they designate her visa status. The Crux of what you said rests on your words ** Anyone who lives legally in the US can acquire a SSN** “legally”. If you come in to the USA on a tourist visa, you can’t apply for a SS# (you could – but they wouldn’t give one), likewise if you came here with no visa at all. Now, if you come here on a work visa, then yes that is correct, but then you be LEGAL, and that’s not who we are talking about.

** Harriet ** said,

If you go to “Honest John’s” and get them to finance you, they take care of the registration, you get your plates in the mail, as for insurance, they can hook you up with that too, they don’t want to lose their investment if our friend stacks up “their” car. If it’s a cash and carry deal – the alien usually doesn’t have any. Ask the many many people who have been involved in an accident with someone who is illegal.

13

Very carefully.

14

I didn’t realize how “high tech” the “we finance” places have gotten in recent years until a friend of mine who does minor body repair was telling me about one of his clients. At this place where the cars sell in the $3k to $10k range and credit checks are relaxed, each car not only has a GPS mechanism that alerts the seller to where it as at all times but has some sort of device that will remotely disable the car from cranking, hence if you miss a payment they can legally make your car undrivable even if it’s 1000 miles away. Kind of cool and kind of disturbing.

15

Janx, those “recycled” SS#'s you are talking about, where do they come from in the first place? If they are stolen, won’t the victim eventually realize and get it straightened out? Can a dead person’s SS# be used, or are SS#'s “discontinued” when a person dies?

16

Depends on state by state and even from city to city ordinances on house/apt leasing laws. But. How do they do it?

A) Just as there employers that look the other way to hire undocumented immigrants, there will be landlords that will look the other way to lease their apartments. $$$ is $$$.

B) Most undocumented immigrants will rent in low-income areas. Usually low-income housing leasing only requires: i. deposit, ii. sign contract, iii. pay 1st month rent. And all the time I rented homes in South Texas, I have never been asked for Texas ID and SS card.

C) And really. In South Texas, at least, it’s really easy to evict a non-paying renter. Get JP notice, constable comes by home, and they get you out into the street. Undocumented immigrants try to avoid as much attention from law enforcement. They will either pay on time or leave before the **** hits the fan.

17

They can offer to pay some extra up front to avoid having their information checked too closely.

They can have a legal person rent the apartment and then pile all the illegals in (one thing that is the bane of rental property management). If asked, say they are visiting.

18

And a good number of cases, the landlord will be willing to take the “visitors” for extra $$$. Recently, one landlord, here in the Rio Grande Valley, was arrested temporarily for harboring undocumented immigrants. When police arrived to check on noisy neighbors, they discovered about 50 people living in the trailer home. The police landlord was cutting the grass nearby. Once under arrest, he was asked about the 50 undocumented immigrants. He said he was schocked, SHOCKED!, that all those people were living there. Hell, he said, I had only rented it to a couple. When asked if he noticed anything strange during lawing mowing, he said, nope, only the fact that there were more trashbags in the dumpster. :rolleyes:

As long as there are greedy people willing to make a good amount of $$$ from people that do not have the power to sue you back or turn you to the authorities, there will be ways to get services and goods in the non-mainstream way.

19

The one I am thinking of came from a guy who was here with a green card, had a sponsor, the whole deal. He decided to go back home and gave the SS card to his friend to use, when he left it was passed on to a student who only had an F1 and wasn’t allowed to work, when that guy left he gave it away, that card just made the rounds in that town’s Brazilian community. At community get togethers, flyer parties and what not you just ask around, put the word out and sooner or later someone gets back to you.

BTW, just to cover my butt, the people involved with the above situation are long gone, and this happened long before I moved to Brazil in 1998, I was there for 7 years – so this has been 10-12 years ago. Even with the event of 9/11 things don’t seem to have changed that much in this department, otherwise identity theft wouldn’t be such an epidemic.

You also asked if they were stolen? I wouldn’t know – but SS#, Drivers license, birth certificate and pass ports are the things that identity thieves are always after, so take care.

As far as what happens to the number when you die, I dunno.

20

When my girlfriend (from Mexico with a Green Card) left and divorced the a-hole who brought her up here to be his house slave and have his kids sold her valid green card and documents for profit and spite. Took us three years to get her papers back in order. :mad: