From your cite:
While details of the laws vary, most allow the return of prescription drugs in single use or sealed packaging from state programs, nursing homes and other medical facilities.
Vicodin in a baggie isn’t suitable on multiple counts.
Who said anything about a baggie full of them?
The person who took them to the recycling place:
Ah, well, I did miss that post.
FWIW, many programs will accept unexpired prescription medications in the original, labeled bottles. But, I don’t know of any which will take unlabeled pills in a baggie for actual recycling as above. In that case, presumably they are destroyed, as noted.
I’m the same way, which is one of the reasons I find this issue interesting. I don’t take painkillers regularly or anything, so I can’t have built up a resistance, but they just have no effect on me at all. Well, ibuprofen has helped a little with tooth pain and muscle pain, but just a little. Aspirin, no effect. Tylenol, nothing. Presciption opiates? May as well be M&Ms. I’ve been prescived Demerol once, Vicodin once, and Oxycodone a few times, over the course of 20 years, and every time I may as well have been prescibed a double cheeseburger. I even started a thread on it. I was terribly disappointed with oxycodone. It had no more analgesic effect on me than, say, a peice of toast.
I’ll be damned if I know why. I don’t abuse painkillers. I don’t take any drugs. I don’t smoke. My drinking habits amount to about a beer a month, maybe.
So to me this oxycontin phenomenon is fascinating for many reasons. For one I didn’t understand where it was all coming from, though this thread is helping. For another, the money involved is staggering; some articles say prices in parts of Ontario go as high as FORTY BUCKS A PILL, holy shit! (In Woodstock, one article cited residents saying the prices really plummented when they opened the methadone clinic.) And finally, to me it’s like people are becoming addicted to, say, vitamins or Pez. It’s alien to me how anyone could be addicted to something that, to me, doesn’t make you feel different.
I’ve never tried any really high grade dangerous stuff like heroin or cocaine, and don’t plan to, so I guess I may never find out.
I tore the cartilage in my chest twice in the past two years which caused significant pain whenever I twisted my body even slightly. Another time last spring, I injured my back and could hardly even get out of bed for a period of almost two weeks. And most recently, I pulled a groin muscle or something from lifting weights.
And every single time, the doctor would tell me to just take tylenol or advil (12 advil pills in a 24 hour period). I couldn’t even get any codeine.
Acording to the federal FD&C act, once we dispense medication it can not be returned, the one exception is above, single use packaging that is unopened or altered. There is even some restriction on that.
For some people opiates really won’t do anything. All opiates do the same exact thing in the body, and most opiates are converted to the same thing. If you don’t have the enzyme, or enough of it, that converts something like Codeine to Morphine, it won’t do a damn thing for you. I don’t remember exactly how much of the population doesn’t have the enzyme, but it is somewhere around 5%. So there are plenty of people such drugs as Codeine, Hydrocodeine, or Oxycodiene won’t do a damn thing… There are also people who have altered opiate binding sites in their CNS so no opiate will do a thing to them, even Morphine won’t work.
Now, this shouldn’t effect drugs with a different mechanism of action like NSAIDs, so if you are someone who can’t take NSAIDs and Opiates, that just means you lost the medicinal pain reliever lottery.
I know there are some jurisdictions (states in the US, and provinces in Canada) that have triplicate prescription programs to track prescriptions for some classes of drugs that are at higher risk for abuse. They keep track of all the prescriptions each patient gets, and they can also how much (and how often) each physician prescribes those drugs. This makes it easier to keep tabs on patients who double-doctor, and on physicians with bad prescribing practices.
However, not all jurisdictions use these programs, so it would be difficult for a doctor there to easily find out all the prescriptions a patient has been given from different doctors.
Regarding the OP and the incident in Ontario, AFAIK Ontario does not have any kind of provincial prescription tracking program.
There are licensed physicians out there who write the prescription for their long-term “upper-class” patients without really thinking about it.
Mom doesn’t sell them, but she could – if she’d take one every 6 or 8 or 12 hours, instead of every four.
It seems to me that pain management is difficult. Some docs over prescribe, and some undertreat, and in the meantime, we have cancer patients in agony while junkies rob pharmacies and the FDA jerks an occasional license.
(Full disclosure – I turn her timer off, tell her she has already taken her pills, and throw out the “extras” with the kittylitter. I’m a sneaky liar, so sue me. I’m not messing with her Morphine patch, or her Vicodin, or her Ambian or her Xanax)
The bathroom medicine cabinets of friends or the parent of friends are also a great resource for junkies. Many junkies will make excuses to use the bathroom and swipe as many drugs as they can.
The stories I could tell. One of our doctors can’t seem to grasp the importance of looking his office door when he leaves. Even after somebody went into his office and stole his prescription pad and stamp - which he forgot to report was missing for twenty four hours. We’ve had to assign a guard to watch the doctor’s office and lock the door behind him.
My cousin did this about 10 years ago.
I went to the doctor for something (forgot what it was now), and he prescribed me some pain medication. I don’t even recall what kind of medication it was. I didn’t take it… I have never taken pain meds, so I just threw it in the medicine cabinet. A few month later my cousin paid a visit. After she left I noticed the medication was missing. :dubious:
As long as I’ve known her, she has complained about vaguely described “head pains,” and routinely visits doctors for treatment. I’m guessing she got hooked on pain meds.
Your experience is not universal.
For me, my first experience with opiates was like a great big hug from God. All anxiety, fear, doubt, restlessness, and anything else that had ever been bad in my life was swept away, replaced by a sense that I was okay and everything was not going to be just all right, but wonderful. My first thought was “so this is what has been missing from my life!”
And that was from a teaspoon of codeine cough syrup I had been given for a bad cough.
Taking a drug which makes one feel wonderful, even when they have essentially nothing to feel wonderful about, eventually becomes problematic.
:eek:
That’s astounding. Would you call that an uncommon hypersensitivity ( it certainly seems like it from where I’m sitting )? And given your history what would you do today for serious pain relief, assuming a major injury or chronic condition? Would non-opiate pain relievers do the job for you, without triggering that kind of extreme euphoria?
Well, I assumed that. It’s part of what makes it fascinating.
That response is pretty typical for people who have an opiate addiction.
The euphoria does tend to diminish over time, until large doses of opiates are needed just to feel somewhat normal.
And for serious acute pain, there is no substitute for opiate pain relievers; when given in such situations, the euphoria tends to be subordinate to the pain relief. So say I and other folks I know who have needed to take opiates for brief periods, for significant acute pain.
For headaches, back spasms, and mild to moderate strains and sprains I rely on ibuprofen and tylenol, though.
For chronic non-malignant pain, opiates aren’t all that great of a choice for many folks, anyway. Since most chronic pain is due at least in part to nerve remodelling, opiates will generally be needed in higher and higher doses over time to treat such conditions. Side-effects of the opiates (like severe constipation and sedation) tend to outweigh pain-relieving effects in the long run.
For those situations, meds which re-program how nerves transmit pain signals may show more beneficial results. Gabapentin, pregabalin, amitriptylene, carbamazepine and others can be used for that.
Yeah, I was kind of pissed off when I was prescribed Vicodin and Lyrica for my facial nerve pain, and it didn’t even get me high. You’d think there’d be an upside to the whole Bell’s Palsy thing. Took the edge off the pain, though.
There was an article here in the paper(I’m in FL) that said 60% of the nation’s oxycodone scripts written last year were written in Broward county (Ft. Lauderdale). People carpool down from Tenn, WV, KY, and pretty much every other state and hit the pain clinics down here. Between Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Bch, there are probably a couple hundred pain clinics. People drive down here because 1)no doctor in their home state will write the scripts, and 2)it’s ridiculously cheap.
There are MRI places all over FTL and WPB that do MRIs for $200-250. Then you just take your MRI to a pain clinic and get the typical setup: 180x Oxycodone 30mg and 60x oxycodone 15mg. Some places also disburse Xanax with those 2 scripts…I’ve heard of people getting 240 and up to 300 30mg pills monthly. The doctor visit is $200 or so. Street value in TN,KY, etc on what you are getting when you 180/60/60 (30s, 15s, and Xanax bars) is around $7000-$7500. (Here in FL, street value is about 1/2 that)…so a group of 4 people carpooling to FL can drive down, spend under $1000 for the doctor visits and $1500 or so to fill the scripts, and ride back with $30,000 worth of pills in the car.
I go to one of these clinics to treat chronic pain, so I know pretty much how the whole deal works. Most of the MRI places are crooked, if you pay their fee, they will find something wrong with you, whether it’s true or not. Also, FL has no statewide tracking system for patient info, although it was just passed as emergency legislation to start one. The governor is due to sign it soon. It will allow your medical data to be assigned to your DL, so any cop that pulls you over can also see your medical history. I have a problem with that…I can admit there is a painkiller problem in FL, and the DEA is really cracking down on pharmacies and doctors, and the state to enact a tracking system, but it shouldn’t be accessible by DL info. I would rather see one that doctors can get into, and then see if you have been given anything recently.
I have a friend who owns an independent pharmacy here in Jacksonville, they were given a directive by the DEA not to fill any scripts for narcotics for out of town people. I also know of a couple of pain clinics in particular that are being heavily watched by the DEA and state police (they will follow people who leave to pharmacies and pull them over). One clinic I know of in particular has to be seen to be believed. I’ve been told by several people it’s owned by a biker gang. EVERY employee is a male, mostly with long hair and tons of tattoos (except for the DR). There are bouncers who patrol the front door and parking lot. They see over 300 patients a day, most from out of state. If there is a long line and you are a walk in customer, you can tip the male receptionist $20 and he will move you up the list. If you are going to fail your drug screen, you can tip the guy $20 when you hand it to him and he will pass you. I’ve got an acquaintance who goes to this one, and he has seen people tipping the bouncers(not sure what that gets you). He legitimately has 2 herniated discs and 1 other bulging disc in his neck/back, and on his initial visit, he was given 180x30mg, 60x15mg, 60x xanax 2mg, and 60x Soma 350mg.
Other states complained to the DEA so much (one sherriff said every time he busts someone selling OC, the script is from FL) that the DEA is pushing the state to clean up it’s act. People are driving down cars full from other states, staying for 2-3 days, and seeing a different doctor each day. They then ride back with $75K to $100K worth of pills, which hits the streets in their respective home towns.
Wouldn’t it be easier just to de-schedule the stuff and let the junkies knock themselves out? It would at least eliminate the street value, as well as the charades being enacted in crooked pain clinics, not to mention the theft from pharmacies. I don’t see what good is accomplished by trying to schedule it and control it. It just seems like it just creates problems, it doesn’t prevent them.
I’m also guessing a lot of GP’s would appreciate not having to deal with a parade of drug seekers every day.
To clarify my situation: I have chronic knee, back, and shoulder pain, all from 3 different incidents. The knee needs to be replaced, but I’ve been told that I’m too young(35). The shoulder is much better now that I’ve taken a break from lifting weights (I have a couple of small tears from lifting). I’ve been told that as long as I don’t try to get back to the size I was (working out with 300+lb bench, 140lb tricep ext, etc) it should be manageable without surgery. In fact, my doctor’s exact words were"you can quit lifting as much and realize you aren’t 25 any more, or we can do surgery at some point), and I have 2 bulging discs that aren’t quite full herniations from being rearended by a 16 year old girl driving 40mph. On bad days, the back pain is so bad that it shoots down my leg with each step and I have difficulty standing up straight. On bad days, my shoulder hurts so bad I can’t dress myself. Both of those are mostly intermittent pain, but the knee is a different story. I tore the ACL, MCL, both meniscus, and strained pretty much everything else in it (basketball injury). I have had 2 surgeries already, and have been told that it just needs to be replaced, there isn’t a single component of my right knee that isn’t damaged (except my new ACL), but that no orthopede will do one on someone under 50 years of age, since they need to be redone after 20-25 years. I was told to look into pain management to allow me to have a functional life until the time arises that I can have the replacement.
What QtM said is absolutely true in my case. Originally, 5 years ago when I had the knee injury, and then the car accident (a few months later), I was put on hydrocodone (lortab/vicodin)10mg 4-6x daily. I would get pain relief, and a euphoric buzz. After retearing a meniscus in my knee 2 years ago, and injuring the shoulder, I started going to a pain clinic. I was initially put on oxycodone (percocet) 10mg 6x daily. At that time, I still would get a euphoric buzz. Now I am on oxycodone IR 30mg 6x daily. I no longer get a euphoric buzz. I wake up in pain every morning, so I make my way to the medicine cabinet, take my pill, and 20-30 minutes later my knee feels ok enough that I can start getting ready for my day.
I won’t lie and say I’ve never taken more than I’m supposed to, in fact I often double up in the morning to help me get started, but the euphoric buzz is completely gone. I take them solely for the pain management they provide. I have a weird conundrum…if I would start working out and get back into shape and lose the 20 lbs I have put on since I quit due to my shoulder, I would carry less weight, and with stronger muscles I think my back and shoulder would bother me less often, but if I begin lifting weights, or doing any type of aerobic activity, I’m going to have more pain from the activity in my knee and shoulder.
At any rate, any questions anyone has about the pain clinic deal in FL just ask here, I pretty much know how the crooked ones work from talking to people who have been there, and how the legitimate ones work (like the one I go to)