How do people get so fat?

Great Debates
101

You are not a population.

As I said, yes, individuals can make changes that improve their likelihood of losing weight. There’s no dispute about that. At the same time, that’s not the same as finding a way to resolve the problem of obesity on a grand scale.

Think of it this way: remember when I said obesity isn’t caused by eating too much in the same way that being poor isn’t caused by not earning enough? Yes, you can give an individual advice about how to escape poverty. The equivalent of telling people “Just eat less”, say “Just go out and work harder, earn more”. To go further, you can recommend social programs, you can encourage education, you can train job skills, you can help them learn how to write a resume. That isn’t the same as solving poverty on a grand scale, and it doesn’t mean our work is done.

The average American is flatly overweight. Clearly, there is a problem. Yet, just knowing about nutrition and good choices clearly isn’t enough. What makes one person an alcoholic and another not? What makes one person stop when they get five pounds overweight and another not stop at fifty? Yes, bad choices are made by people everywhere, but clearly that’s not the only issue; otherwise why would some cultures (e.g. America) and some populations (e.g. the poor) and further some individuals tend toward obesity?

I think there are lots of reasons why people are overweight. There’s no one-size-fits-all (snerk) solution. For one person, the answer may be “stop sucking down Frappuchinos”, but it really doesn’t come close to resolving the physical, cultural and psychological reasons why some people just have a very hard time losing weight and keeping it off with currently available methods.

It really wasn’t all that long ago that we considered things like sex before marriage and masturbating as moral failings. These are behaviors and yes, the person does have control. Yet, most people find it funny that people suggest that abstinence should be the only available birth control. I’d suggest that it’s just as silly to tell a population of people that it’s easy to go without sex or masturbating as it is to tell a population of people that everyone can be thin through willpower dieting alone. The need for sex is a compulsion, the need for food is a compulsion, and for some people those compulsions seem to be somehow broken.

102

I am sick and tired of all this “it’s the carbs, stop eating them and all will be well” shit. From the industrial revolution up to the 1940s-ish, the foundation of the standard poor person’s diet was grain, animal fat, and sugar (after the mid-1800s, when sugar became cheap). Meat used to be expensive. I have a recreational interest in early Home Economics and Urban Welfare programs, and I have read reams of stuff from the 1880s through the 1930s, on both the actual diets of poor urban workers and recommendations for feeding families cheaply, and they all revolve around white flour, lard, butter, and sugar. And the people who ate these diets were a damn sight thinner than the average American nowadays, who eats about twice the amount of meat than the average American 100 years ago. Whatever is making us fat, it’s not that we’re eating more carbohydrates. (I vote for lack of exercise, lack of sleep, and later, more irregular mealtimes.)

103

This word does not mean what you think it means.

104

But aren’t greens super good for you?

105

I’m not really talking about losing weight, I was talking about losing weight and then keeping that weight off. Dieting is hard, maintenance is also pretty tough and if you’re doing it right, it NEVER ENDS.

There are a ton of ads and messaging around diets. Most diet companies probably hope you fail, because they you’ll come back and do it again and again. There are tons of books about losing weight - where are all the books about maintaining a weight loss?

Losing weight is only a small part of the equation.

I still think my message is important and it’s rarely said - change how you eat, stick to your changes.

Notice I didn’t say what or how to change - I don’t know what will work for anyone else. I do think it’s deeply personal and I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer. I know that I had to do something I liked, that was easy for me. I’m the obsessive, planning type, I’m sure my method wouldn’t work for most people.

I do think that when I was heavy, I spent way too much time inside my head, trying to figure out WHY I was fat and HOW I would lose weight (so many grand plans and schemes). I actually did very little. This last time - I decided SCREW IT and just jumped in with both feet and did it. As a former fat person, I think that some overweight people should spend less time trying to figure out why they’re obese and just start DOING something about it - fake it til you make it.

There’s a gorgeous quote from one of my favorite weight loss board:

“Nothing happens until something moves.”

Currently available methods? Like tracking your daily calories and making sure you burn more than you consume? You make weight loss sound like such a mystery. It isn’t. Most people stay within their monetary budget - why are calories so special, so sacred, so deserved? I can’t buy the 500$ boots I want, I can’t eat the 500 calorie muffin - there are consequences for both actions.

I’ve always said it was both the hardest and easist thing I have ever done. It’s easy because most people know that an apple is a good and healthy snack. It’s hard, because it takes a lot of work and planning to have that apple handy and at your fingertips when you’re hungry.

I know I’m emotionally invested in this subject - like a reformed smoker or something.

106

Yes, the excluded middle.

Saying that food is fuel and nothing more is like saying music is for ringtones, nothing more. Sad.

107

I don’t think that means you can’t enjoy it. Just that food isn’t a drug to make you feel good, or something to do when you’re bored. It’s something to fuel your body–you should eat food that tastes good to you but keep in mind you shouldn’t view it as a recreation or something.

108

Sure it is…and that’s the problem.

Overeating, eating the ‘wrong’ foods, not observing any limitations or moderation; all are psychological problems rather than physiological ones. The morbidly obese should probably consider counseling to find the root psychological cause of their problem rather than guilt-ing and shaming themselves into a dietary program that doesn’t work for them or take into account “why” they have a problem to begin with.

109

Well, it can be those things. But I don’t think most people see it that way. At least I hope not.

110

Jettboy, I think you’re reading Freudian Slit’s comment out of context. He’s responding to the original point that food is the drug of choice of many people. Those people need to come to terms with what is necessary to support life, and what is excess. Even in this thread you can feel the denial that a few people are still in regarding their eating habits.

You are correct though, to fully understand and overcome the overeating problem, it is very helpful to have help from people who are trained to do so.

111

I’m not trying to lessen your accomplishment, Glory. I appreciate that you work very hard at maintaining your weight and you should be congratulated for that.

However, again, I’m trying to talk about populations of people with obesity. Let’s compare to, say, alcoholism. Lots of people with alcoholism are able to fix it by going to AA, and will tell you about how AA helped them fix the problem. However, if you actually measure success rates, AA isn’t any more successful than trying to quit on your own (success rate about 5%). In a broad sense, “fixing” alcoholism is easy – just don’t drink. Yet, statistically, very few people are able to do that. The vast majority (that other 95%) end up drinking again.

Clearly AA is the solution for some people, but it’s not “the” solution to fixing alcoholism. Likewise, dieting and exercising to lose weight through willpower is a solution, but it is not “the” solution for obesity on a society-wide scale. Does that mean that people shouldn’t do their damndest to try to eat right, exercise, and take care of themselves? Does it mean that we shouldn’t celebrate those who overcome their genetics and predispositions and keep the weight off? No, of course neither of those things are true. But there is a lot that we need to know about obesity in order to “solve” it on a cultural level.

Some people find it very easy to stay at a normal weight. Others do not. It’s like intelligence – some people learn easily, and others do not. It’s wrong to just tell the people on the dumber end of the bell curve to just “study harder”. They just don’t have the same potential. Yes, hard work can overcome genetics to a greater or lesser degree, and someone who is not as smart can become really successful in some cases. That doesn’t mean that it is a beginning and end solution to tell people who don’t learn as easily to just work harder than everyone else. We need to be applying science and medicine to find out what we can do to help those people learn, persistently work on techniques to maximize the success of their efforts, and to fix or prevent things like learning disabilities if we can do so. Very very few people are mentally handicapped, just like very very few people are really at a point where they can do nothing to improve their weight. Most of us just have greater or lesser potential to be physically (or mentally) fit, and while we should be encouraged to reach the best of our potential, ultimately the playing ground is simply not even and we should do all that we can to try to fix that.

I’m all for reaching potential. A lot of people don’t do that. But unfortunately the potential just isn’t the same for everyone and there ARE lots of factors for obesity that are outside the control of an individual, and that should be studied.

112

I like to throw it around. I know people who are addicted to heroin, or alcohol, or internet porn, internet message boards (me), sugar, shopping. Obviously these ‘addictions’ are not all exactly the same thing.

But they do all have one thing in common - you have a compulsion to do or consume the thing. You feel good when you do (for a short time at least), and bad when you don’t indulge your craving.

113

Those people got a lot more exercise than your current desk jockey does. Carbs are fine if you lead an active lifestyle. They become a big problem when you don’t.

114

Yep.

When someone says they’re “going on a diet,” there is an implication that the diet is a temporary thing. That’s why “diets” don’t work; people start off thinking, “I’ll be on this diet for a while, lose weight, and then go back to normal food.” They view a diet as a prison sentence for the crime of gaining weight. When their sentence is over, they go back to eating what they use to.

To permanently lose weight, a person must must make a complete and permanent change in what they eat.

115

Bad analogy. Depending on a person’s education, intelligence, and family situation, it can be very difficult for some people to earn more money. The same is not true for losing weight. Losing weight simply requires a person to eat less. Anyone can do it.

I totally agree.

Many people believe fat people are fat because they haven’t been “educated” on the subject of nutrition. But I don’t think this is true.

I have a low metabolism rate, and was once fat. But for the last 15 years I’ve kept my weight in check. Many people have asked me how I did it, and I take my time and explain it to them. Even though I “educated” them on how to lose weight, they never follow my advice. After I tell them to start off by eliminating fried food from their diet, they go out and eat… fried food. :rolleyes: They’ve lost the battle before they’ve begun. Clearly education won’t solve the problem.

I disagree. There is a one-size-fits-all solution: stopping eating so much damn food. And how is that accomplished? By… eating less food. That’s what it all comes down to.

116

Crafterman, you do realize that none of your statements have a basis in fact?

There have been studies done where subjects calories were reduced (never to below ‘starvation level’ where the body starts eating muscle and reducing organ function). There have been studies where subjects calories were increased. In all studies, weight loss or gain is highly individual and unpredictable, and the human body will generally do whatever it can to maintain a stable weight. Disregarding ‘calories in, calories out’, it will slow what functions it needs to to keep weight on in lean times, and burn calories however it can (increased energy, increased body temperature, faster and less efficient digestion) when overeating.

I am underweight (BMI 17), eat a high-fat diet of about 2000 calories per day, and I don’t assume that if someone else ate what I do their body would look like mine. Why do you?

117

rhubarbarin:

It is physically possible for any fat person to lose weight. They simply need to eat less. If they cut back on a few calories, and they don’t lose an appreciable amount of weight, they need to cut back even more. At the same time, they need to make sure their basic nutritional requirements are satisfied.

This works 100% of the time it’s tried. At least from a physical standpoint. The hard part is the mental part, i.e. getting a person to actually do it.

118

Okay, I’ll cop to it: 75% of my weight problem is me eating too much crap and 25% of it is birth control pills and anti-depressants proven to cause weight gain.

I have an unhealthy relationship with food. But just like an alcoholic, I haven’t hit rock bottom yet, and until I do, there’s a good chance I won’t change my ways.

Call me out on it, but remember I’m not a hell of a lot different than anyone addicted to alcohol, drugs, shopping, gambling or WoW.

119

And yet there are fat people everywhere.

Look, we know that obesity runs in families. It has been linked to a commonly occurring gene variant. We know some populations (e.g. Samoans) overwhelmingly exhibit obesity when food is freely available.

Education and family situation also play a role in obesity. Certainly, poverty has been shown to be linked to obesity. People in rural areas lack equivalent access to healthy foods and healthy foods are more expensive.

Yes, individuals can find ways to overcome these things, but overcoming obstacles doesn’t mean that they don’t exist or that we should expect everyone to overcome every obstacle and not provide help.

And people could get fewer STDs by having less (or no) sex, but that’s not a real solution to our problems. Abstinence in general just isn’t particularly effective in any area where humans are fighting their genetics to do the opposite.

Besides which, “just eat less” simply isn’t enough to maintain a healthy diet. Lots of diets (and I mean diet in terms of how you eat, not short-term diet plans) are completely inappropriate to an active, healthy lifestyle no matter how much or little of them you eat.

There are lots and lots of obstacles to people losing weight – genetically, culturally, socially – that we can work to resolve if we acknowledge the problem and stop chalking up obesity to a simple moral failing. Again, we simply do not know how to get a population of people to lose weight over the long term. The vast majority of people cannot lose a large amount of weight and keep it off. Simply repeating to put down the fork to every fat person, indefinitely, will not solve the obesity crisis. People can and do have bad diets, but lots of people with bad diets are skinny.

We need to resolve why some people have the compulsion to eat far more than they need, because very, very few human beings can overcome compulsive behavior in the long term with nothing but willpower. There are lots of things we can do to achieve this. We need to further legitimate medical research in finding ways to treat obesity, not just cast blame.

It hasn’t been that long since we have started to acknowledge mental illness as genuine. Lots of people still will tell depressed people to just snap out of it, and cheer up. It’s just not that simple of a problem. Heck, obesity and depression have been linked; why is it so difficult to believe that tending towards obesity is a physical problem that may not be simply resolved for everyone?

As I’ve repeatedly said, yes, for now, individuals can and should be encouraged and supported in eating healthier diets. Willpower overcoming adversity is great, and I strive for it every day myself. Yet, some people have a great deal of problems gaining weight and some people have a great deal of problems losing it; until we understand why, obesity will likely be an issue. We need to do all that we can to help give people the tools they need to have a healthy diet that keeps them at a healthy weight but that they can access, afford, and live with (without a constant sense of hunger or compulsion or craving).

120

Well, I could share my experiences in losing 22 pounds (so far) without a constant sense of hunger, or compulsion, or craving – actually, my cravings have nearly disappeared since I started eating a healthier diet – but since I am not a population, I think you are not interested in my commentary.

What tools do you think we should give people in order to achieve the goals you’ve laid out?