Emperor Kang Hsi, who I mentioned above was Mongolian and was the longest reigning and one of the most revered rulers of China. If you review Chinese history, the majority of Chinese who lived outside the capital (which moved North and South as invaders came and were dethroned) were unaffected by the politics of the time. They worked and paid homage and taxes to whomever was in power at the time.
If anything, though it may not be evident to Western eyes, there are distinct physical differences (primarily facial) that makes it easy to distinguish and unfortunately sometimes be a cause of discrimination between Chinese, Korean and Japanese, even within their own national compatriots.
In Produce 101 China which I mentioned above was a Chinese reality show to create a CPop group, one of the winners (Yamy), has facial features that are typically associated with those from Mongolia and there were numerous comments about how she wasn’t pretty enough to make the group because she didn’t match current Chinese standards of beauty. Ironically, in rebuttal to some of these comments, I posted pics of some ancient paintings of Chinese beauties and one in particular was looked as if Yamy stepped right out of it!
The average height and physical appearance of the Japanese and Koreans changed dramatically after WII and the Korean War largely due to change of diet brought by the U.S.
One of the distinguishing traits of Okinawans is they tend to be shorter, even today than mainland Japanese.
Speaking of changes to the appearance of Japanese and Koreans post war. I don’t think (as the op posited) Japanese and Koreans are trying to look more white and less Asian through plastic surgery. While double eyelids, big eyes and lightened hair are partially influenced by Western culture, those changes aren’t to look more white or less Asian, but to fit the changing standards of beauty within the country. If anything, double eyelids and big eyes are common traits of some Chinese, particularly Southern Chinese . Also, double eyelids, big eyes and light (auburn) hair are natural features of some Japanese and Koreans and not exclusive to the West. Two of the typical distinguishing traits of Okinawans are double eyelids and larger eyes.
Do yourself a favor and never bring up Korea/Koreans to a native born/raised Japanese person. My ex-husband was one of those and dear god. I’ve never seen such blatant racism and unbridled hatred for a group of people in my life. Granted, he might be an extreme case but my experiences have supported that, at the very least, most Japanese have a SEVERE dislike of Koreans. According to him, Korea steals everything from Japan. Japan starts making electronics? The Koreans start to make the same ones. Japan makes cars? Korea makes shitty versions of Japanese cars. Of course, he’ll be polite to them in every day life but, as he made clear to me, he would NEVER be friends with one of ‘them’.
A funny little anecdotal story to add to the previous one. When we were together, there was a report done by a Japanese professor, which said that the Japanese language was actually derived from the Korean language. I was stupid enough to bring it up, because I thought since it was done by someone in Japan, he might actually take it as something more than a flat out lie. Nope. His response? The professor must be secretly Korean. Because there is NO way anything in Japan came from Korea.
I’m sure the millions of Japanese fans of Twice and other KPop groups don’t share your husband’s sentiment.
That said, in the '60’s my Uncle married a Korean woman (they later divorced) and my nephew would come home crying because the other kids were picking on him for being Japanese/Korean. Note that these were Japanese and Korean kids, just not mixed.
As for electronics and cars, I’ve had Korean and Chinese friends acknowledge that some Japanese electronics are superior, but still buy products from their homeland.
I’ve also had Korean and Chinese friends warn me to never shop at a Korean or Chinese store alone because I’ll be taken advantage of. Though it’s fine for them to go with me or themselves.
BTW, I would never marry a native Japanese woman (perhaps under extraordinary circumstances of blind love), because I understand their mindset. I’ll never be Japanese enough (being two generations away from Japan) and my family heritage is clearly low-class / farmers because my grandparents immigrated to Hawaii from Japan/Okinawa. My paternal grandmother was a picture bride.
On the other hand, I’ve fallen for native Korean and Chinese women because of their honesty (towards me*) and their acceptance of my not being of their nationality.
*In my experience, one way to tell if a Korean woman likes you as a friend is she’ll hit or push you, sometimes pretty hard.
I’ve asked several Korean women:
“You like me don’t you?”
“How do you know?”
“Because you hit me!” Shy laughHit
I suspect the reason some Koreans and Chinese accept me as a friend is because I’m half Okinawan. It’s only when I tell them I’m half Okinawan do their eyes light up. If you listen to to the native language of Okinawa (Uchinaaguchi), it sounds more like mix of Korean and Chinese than Japanese.
I am paraphrasing things here and also being a bit flippant, but from what I have gathered from my Thai wife (and I probably have this wrong): The Thais don’t like the Laos, neither likes the Cambodians, the Japanese don’t like the Koreans, the Vietnamese don’t like the Chinese and nobody likes the Japanese.
LOL! I’ve actually heard that too! It’s okay though, because we Japanese love and admire ourselves so much it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks!
BTW, I’ve heard that about other nationalities too, usually with Eastern European countries substituted.
Edit: As my Chinese friend’s ex-wife would always tell him. “Japanese one better.” and “Better in Japan.” NIPPON ICHI! I don’t know if she’s remarried, but apparently “Chinese one, no good!” LOL
“The whole world is festering with unhappy souls,
The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles.
Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch,
And I don’t like anybody very much.”
Sometimes when I eat Japanese, Chinese and Korean food together (common at buffets or pot lucks here in Hawaii), I get a stomachache and I only half-jokingly say they’re fighting in my stomach. :eek:
BTW, I’m aware that I usually type Japanese, Chinese and Korean in that order. So yes, there is a subconscious hierarchy in my mind.
yeah I knew a Korean guy who married a Japanese girl ….it unleashed a hell so bad on both that they moved here became citizens and had a few kids here
there’s a grudging acceptance between the families because everyone wants to see the grandkids and if any of the bs is brought up the kids were raised to say “im American”
In the 60’s, one of my cousins on my Dad’s side (so Okinawan) wanted to marry a Japanese guy and her parents forbade it because he wasn’t Okinawan. She never married.
It’s only my opinion, but I think that not all Japanese think they are superior to everyone. Certainly there are some - probably a relatively large percentage like 30%, at a guess. These are largely the same people who measure intelligence by Japanese language ability. But there are also some people look up to westerners, again, another similar large percentage and they either like westerners or are jealous of them.
Having said that, the big thing westerners lack is being Japanese, and no matter how much they might look up to you, physically or culturally, you are not Japanese so if the job is going to one of you and the Japanese applicant is 50% qualified for the job compared to your 100% qualification, the job is going to the Japanese applicant. End of story.
If you or your parent, grandparents, etc. immigrated to another country, when asked "Who are you?, do you answer, Nationality-ethnicity, Ethnicity-nationality or Nationality of <ethnicity> heritage? People will criticize their country and may place another country as superior, but few will place their ethnicity as second. And if they do, it’s usually because they view peoples of another ethnicity/race being regarded/treated in a superior manner.
As far as interviews, despite the selection supposedly being based on the candidate most qualified, there’s always a bias on the part of the interviewer. Same race/ethnicity? +10, Come from the same state/city/town? +10, Share the same interests? +10, Recommended by someone the interviewer knows and trusts their judgment? +20
LOL…I just remembered. When I first started to vote, I asked my Dad who I should vote for if there was no clear front runner. His hierarchy was: Democrats first, Republicans never (the one exception was when a popular mayor switched to the Republican party), next Japanese, Okinawan, Chinese, Filipino, Korean, Portuguese and Hawaiian. If the only candidates were white or of unknown nationality, leave the ballot blank.
Being born into plantation life in Hawaii, the order largely followed that of immigration. The Portuguese were near the bottom because they were the lunas (foremen) and the Hawaiians were disparaged as being lazy (which is a carryover from the first plantation owners unused to their traditional lifestyle of taking and producing only what was needed for daily life). The whites were the plantation owners and therefore disliked and seen an untrustworthy.
Even as a third generation born here, I still subconsciously adhere to that hierarchy, not only out of a sense of (diminished compared to a Japanese national) superiority, but because it was passed down as a directive by my father.
LOL…I was wondering when someone would ask me about being Japanese/Okinawan!
In the 60’s and 70’s being Okinawan (especially Japanese/Okinawan) was spoken in hushed tones. It wasn’t until the 80’s that Okinawan pride became a thing in Hawaii, peaking with the opening of the Hawaii Okinawa Center in 1990. I always joke that I can only go halfway through the doorway. And my Mom would say she couldn’t even get into the doorway!
When first learned of my mixed heritage in my early teens (which I though was kind of cool, because there were a lot mixed heritage kids at school), I was told to say I was Japanese and not Japanese/Okinawan. My surname is one of the few shared by mainland Japanese and Okinawans (though it’s pronounced differently in Okinawa) and I don’t have the typical Okinawan features, big rounder eyes, darker features and heavier, darker hair. Neither my Dad or my siblings have these traits either. To this day, when I tell someone I’m half Okinawan, they look at my face, then my arms and say “Where???”
