Are there a lot more fancy hands, full houses and such?
After you have received all 7 cards, the odds of any particular hand are the same for Hold’em or 7 card stud.
Some hands may occur more often in actual play because of the difference in the way the hands are played out, but I don’t know how it affects things.
I would expect that you also see more situations in Hold’em where you have too people with flushes or full houses, simply because they are sharing a large batch of cards.
The simplest answer is the ods in Hold 'em and 7 card stud are the same for both you and your opponents. In each case you have 7 cards in your hand and know 5 of the 7 cards in each opponent’s hand. You also know two cards each opponent’s hand cannot have – your two hole cards.
What’s different is your hand and the opponents’ hands are more correlated. For example, with two 6s in the common cards, you both can have trip 6’s something that’s impossible in 7 card stud (w/o wild cards). Straights and flushes are more likely as well if the common cards are very helpful to them.
At first I thought this was obvious. From one player’s point of view, 7 card stud and Texas Hold-em are the same. You make your best 5 card hand from the 7 available.
But suppose the community cards in Hold-em are interesting e.g. three 7’s or four hearts. Then provided there are still several players left in the pot, the likelihood of a big hand is greater because all the players have access to these interesting cards…
Are you asking if there’s more of a variance in odds? I would say yes. The odds for your hand in 7 stud change WRT other players’ hands every time a card is dealt, just like in Hold 'Em. Unlike Hold ‘Em, you are not calculating those odds on community cards, but on your own hand and the cards showing in other players’ hands.
Incorrect. Actually, the odds are decreased because there are fewer cards in play, only 25 as opposed to a maximum of 49 in 7 card stud.
What I’m asking is simple. Every Hoyle book of cards has a table in the back stating what the odds are for each hand.
Five Card Stud
Hand . Probability
Royal flush 0.00000154
Straight flush 0.00001385
Four of a kind 0.00024010
Full house 0.00144058
Flush 0.00196540
Straight 0.00392465
Three of a kind 0.02112845
Two pair 0.04753902
Pair 0.42256903
Nothing 0.501177394
What does hold-em odds look like? More fancy hands likely?
I think glee’s point is based on the notion of a hand where the common cards are “interesting”. IOW, it will be easier in Hold’em to identify a case in which it’s going to take an atypically high hand to win.
Off hand I’d say the probability of a royal flush is doubled so I’d have to say yes.
Ooops I should have said the odds of straight flush would be doubled.
They’re roughly the same and change as play advances. Offhand I’d say the odds are dictated at the turn. As bluezooky stated, your odds of hitting your straight flush increase dramatically by hitting the turn card (33%, IIRC) But I would refer to David Sklansky, who essentially wrote the book on pot odds for just about any poker game you’d care to play. Mike Caro’s Also an excellent reference.
I didn’t explain that especially well, I apologize. The odds, prior to dealing, are essentially the same as the ones you posted. They change the more cards are dealt. I’ll get you a better link when I get home, I’m behind a firewall here, and poker websites are EEEEEVIL.
Are you sure about that?!
As I said (and Xema understood), suppose there are three 7’s in the centre. With several players still left in, the odds of a full house (or indeed two or more) are surely higher than with the same number of players each having one 7 card stud hand.
Same thing applies if four hearts are out there. Several players could each make a flush.
Positive. The more cards that are in play increase odds in your favor. For example:
In any given Hold 'Em hand, there will be a maximum of 27 cards dealt (including burn cards). This puts your odds of getting your card on the river at 1 in 25. In any given 7-stud game, there will be a maximum of all 52 cards dealt. This puts your odds of making your hand at the river (assuming all 7 players play all the way to the river) at 1 in 10.
Sorry, still bouncing around the office.
There are 12 hearts in the deck. In order for a flush to happen, at least three of them must end up on the board. That leaves 9 with 48 cards left in the deck. Figure, 10 people playing, all of them duking it out for the remaining hearts. Factor in the number of cards left undealt (25) and figure the odds from there of a heart ending up on the board or any three people all holding a pair of hearts. Much more likely, at least three people holding one heart and a heart being presented on the turn. The more remaining in the deck after the deal, the higher your chance of making the flush.
OK, I think we are analysing different things.
The OP asked ‘Are there a lot more fancy hands, full houses and such?’.
As I said, once three of a kind appear in the centre, there can easily be two or more full houses. This does not happen as much in stud.
Same goes for 4 hearts in the centre. There can be multiple flushes, where the same four cards are being used several times (unlike stud). The interesting four cards in the middle outweigh the fact that more cards are used in stud.
You are analysing it solely from one player’s point of view, where we agree the odds are the same.
Pretty much, yes. It’s why I prefer stud. You’re more able to calculate odds because you’re able to get an idea of the other players’ hands by their up cards and the way they bet. In Hold 'Em, you’re betting blind. There’s much more of an element of luck involved. I mean, say the blinds are 50/100. Are you really willing to take a chance of a heart flush with 4/6 unsuited pre-flop (Sadly, way too many internet players will automatically say “yes” to that)? You’re just as likely to get big hands in Stud, it’s just you don’t have to share it with anyone else.
You also have to bear in mind there’s a lot of deception in 7 stud. You could see 574 unsuited and have no idea that player’s caught a full house in his down cards and put him on a possible low straight. It’s much easier to bluff and semi bluff. To me, it’s a game more of skill. I lost $2000 to a straight wheel with an A/4 suited showing. That was it.
There’s a reason Hold 'Em is called “any two can win.” Look at the HORSE tournament in the WSOP. Did you see any non-professional players in the final table? No. Know why? Because non-pros only know how to play non-hands in Hold 'Em. Any game with less luck and more skill is going to put the odds more in the favor of analytical skills.
Disclaimer: I fully admit to being biased against Hold 'Em. It frustrates the daylights out of me. I like to play a hand more frequently than every 17 minutes or so, but in Hold 'Em, that’s about what I’m limited to. I hate being a rock.
Here’s the promised link for odds as broken down by Mike Caro; he analyzes several different games and breaks down Hold 'Em and 7Stud as follows:
[quote]
Hold 'em.
Table XVIII - The Probability Of Being Dealt Specific Hold 'Em Hands Before The Flop
Table XIX - Flops For Selected Hold 'Em Hands
Table XX - Flops For Selected Hold 'Em Hands
Table XXI - Flops For Selected Hold 'Em Hands
Table XXII - Hold 'Em - From Flop To Finish
Table XXIII - Hold 'Em - From Flop To Finish
Table XXIV - Hold 'Em - Absence Of Aces Before Flop, By Number Of Players
Table XXV - Hold 'Em - Basic Data
Table XXVI - Hold 'Em - Long Shots
Seven-card Stud.
Table XXVII - The Probability Of Being Dealt Seven-Stud Starting Hands
Table XXVIII - Chance Of Improvement For Various Seven-Stud Hands Long Range
Table XXIX - Chance Of Improvement For Various Seven-Stud Hands Middle Range
Table XXX - Chance Of Improvement For Various Seven-Stud Hands Short Range
Really, every player should study his tables and own at least one of David Sklansky’s books (preferrably The Theory of Poker).
Looks like there’s a whole lot more fancy hands.
The odds of getting less than a pair went from about 1in2 to 1in4
I find it’s much easier to read hands and calculate odds in Hold’Em, especially because you see one more up card. I play way more hands in Hold’Em than in Stud precisely because any two can win. It’s not a ‘bug,’ it’s a ‘feature.’
I do play and enjoy both.
To be successful at any variant, you’ve got to know what constitutes a good hand. The statistcal odds help you more in Stud, where you almost never fold a full house. When you get a full house in Hold’Em, there is often another person with one that might be better. Flushes are particularly problematic in Hold’Em.