I think we need to stop meddling in the affairs of other countries. We have done far too much damage to people all around the world. Staging coups in third world countries to take their resources sounds like an agenda for a Bond villain, not the “Greatest country in the world”.
How do we put a stop to this? Democracy can’t be imposed, and overthrowing governments creates major disasters. I think this is unacceptable, and tax dollars should not be spent on it.
It’s just a matter of convincing policymakers that “coups in third world countries to take their resources” are not in America’s interests, in the long run at least.
Otherwise, an activist foreign policy isn’t going to go away. We have treaty obligations for one thing.
‘The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.’
The 1950s are calling and would like their meme back.
Seriously - when was the last time that happened?
Uh, in this century? Afghanistan (2001-2014), Iraq (2003-2011), Iran (2010 Stuxnet attack), Libya (2011), Syria (2011-present), notwithstanding the revelations of NSA surveillance and sharing of intelligence about both foreign leaders and US citizens with intelligence and defense services of other nations.
As a global superpower, we have both a political and moral interest in the affairs of other nations, even (to a certain extent) their purely internal affairs. And the US and NATO have often been blamed as much for not intervening, or intervening in an ineffectual or insufficient manner to prevent humanitarian crises, as for unnecessary and self-serving reasons, e.g. the invasion of Kuwait or Panama. But the fact remains that engaging in military adventurism for the express purpose of regime change has often turned out to be couterproductive and far more costly (in lves and budget) than orignally estimated, and this is especially true when the ostensible objective has been an ideological one, e.g. bringing democracy to Iraq.
The US is going to continue to intervene, of course, and in the cases where diplomacy and sanctions fail (Iran, North Korea, Russian annexation of the Crimea and instigation of was with the Ukraine) it males sense to consider both over and covert interventions. But such actions should be carefully considered outside of ideology and with an eye toward both historical success and failures and the specifics of the sociopolitics of the region. Just as we completely misunderstood the motivations of the Vietnamese during the Vietnam conflict, we utterly failed to anticipate the results of the power vacuum following the attempt at regime change in Iraq, even though in hindsight both results were entirely predictable.
Stranger
… Countdown to Bushbushbushbush iraqiraqiraqiraq!!!
Anyway, the answer is simply to elect different leaders. But I disagree that the US is an imperialist power. The US engagement in the world has nothing to do with building an empire.
Oh, OK, hegemon, then. Better?
[quote=“Ravenman, post:6, topic:764286”]
… Countdown to Bushbushbushbush iraqiraqiraqiraq!!!QUOTE]
In all seriousness, and without snark, can you please explain exactly what you’re trying to say here.
I’ve seen suggestions in the Dope of “here we go again, blaming the current situation on Gulf War II”. Is that what you’re doing or is your intent something else?
IMHO I don’t think that this has been discussed too often for too long as it’s anyone’s guess as to how long the repurcussions can go on. Even now, with Turkey suddenly getting actively involved in Syria against Kurdish forces, there could possibly be some serious problems for NATO.
As the article below mentions:
"In partnering with Turkey, the US hoped to gain a professional military army in the fight against Isil. However Ankara has so far focused mostly on targeting Kurdish forces, who have been a reliable ally to America.
Fighting between the two will raise deep concerns for Washington and could now force it to pick a side. " [bolding mine].
Sorry for the hijack btw.
Tell that to the Philippines. Or Hawaii. Or Puerto Rico. Or Guam. Or the slice of Antarctica the US claims. Pretty global reach for not building an empire, there.
As terrible an idea as the Iraq war was, and I think it goes down in history as one of the biggest blunders the US has made, some people believe that was evidence of imperialism. It was not, and Jesus I’m tired of every criticism of US foriegn policy being boiled down to Iraq.
Tell me, is France still a mercantilist power?
Well, with the possible exception of the Philippines in the very early 20th century*, the USA has not been a colonial power and does not practice Imperialism.
We call what you did here “Poisoning the well”.:rolleyes:
- Most of the US went into the Philippines with the noble intention of freeing them from the Spanish and helping them set up a independent Democratic government, which indeed what occurred. But a solid minority wanted the Philippines as a colony.
Hawaii begged to join the USA. Puerto Rico was freed from Spanish imperialism, and has since steadfastly refused to leave the USA, despite many votes. Same with Guam.
When you give the residents full American citizenship and they *dont want to leave, *theta’s not imperialism.
Gosh, I’m really worried about those large-scale colonies on Antarctic soil, dispossessing the native peoples and destroying their civilization.
:D:):D;)
Do you feel that the United States was wrong to overthrow Germany’s chosen government in the 1940’s? Because I feel we improved the situation in both Germany and the rest of the world by helping in overthrowing the Nazi regime.
If we hadn’t meddled in German affairs (and there were people at the time arguing we shouldn’t) than the Nazis might still be ruling Germany and a large portion of Europe. Or maybe Stalin would have ended up running Europe and his successors might still be around. I feel the current situation, which American meddling contributed to, is better than those possibilities.
Assuming you agree with me on that point, you might still be arguing that overthrowing Hitler was an extreme example. And I’d agree. But if you concede it is an example of American meddling making things better than the argument has shifted.
It’s no longer “I think we need to stop meddling in the affairs of other countries”; it’s “I think we need to stop some of our meddling in the affairs of other countries”. It’s no longer “Democracy can’t be imposed, and overthrowing governments creates major disasters”; it’s “Democracy sometimes can’t be imposed, and overthrowing governments sometimes creates major disasters”. You might even go as far as “I think we need to stop most of our meddling in the affairs of other countries” and “Democracy usually can’t be imposed, and overthrowing governments often creates major disasters”. But we’re agreeing that it’s not a universal rule; it’s a matter of judging the situation and deciding what’s appropriate.
Saying* “this is good”* and “this is bad” are easy. But like most easy answers they’re too simple to be true. The true answer is more complicated: “something can be good or bad depending on the circumstances and it’s often hard to determine which it is”. But you’re better off with answers that are true but complicated than ones that are simple but false.
The more the USA circles down the ultra-right hole, the less influence – both hard and soft – it will have on the rest of the world.
What we have done to the middle east and Latin America is imperialism. Ever heard of the banana republics? Salvador Allende? He was overthrown so we could steal Chilean copper. Did you forget that we overthrew Saddam, stole Iraqi oil, tried to impose democracy, and turned Iraq into an absolute disaster?
Yes, clearly we’ve all forgotten about Iraq, because it’s only been mentioned in half the responses to your thread.
Seriously, cramming more outrage into your posts isn’t making you more convincing. Try putting together a coherent argument. It takes a little more work, but it’s more interesting to read.
It is worse than you know…of course the whole thing is being whitewashed…
Transparency and accountability for organizations like the CIA would help.
The problem is that the US is not the only nation that does this. I think every nation with the power to do this does it. China and Russia meddle in foreign nation’s affairs. Western Europe does too (not as much as in the past though).
Even in the middle east, it happens all the time. Proxy wars are being fought with Saudi Arabia and Iran vying for power. The government of Lebanon was just a Syrian proxy for a while.
Basically, this seems like a human trait and not something particular to the US.