That’s why she was appointed. This is Florida, remember?
Suppose she worked for a law firm. Law firms have other competing law firms. One of the competitors is fishing for a big client, and they mention, “well, you could go to Burns and Smith, I think one of their associates posed for Playboy, but I’m sure they do good work.”
Reputation matters. Why does an employer have to underwrite an employee’s prior actions? Why is that their obligation?
…we live in a world where Donald Trump was the President of the United States, the most powerful person in the world. Reputation didn’t matter there.
Because reputation means as much as you want it to mean. The senior partners of Burns and Smith are well known racist misogynists who used to party on Epstein Island and have been credibly accused of sexual harassment multiple times, but LORD HAVE MERCY if one of their associates once posed for Playboy. You can’t have the employer underwrite those disgusting prior actions. The line has to be drawn somewhere.
I don’t think atheism was ever a problem. My dad is an atheist (“it’s all bullshit”) who is nominally Catholic. My district wasn’t hyper-religious or hyper-Christian, although most people are some flavor of Christian. Plenty of stores open Sunday. It wasn’t even rural, I would call it suburban. I knew plenty of people who weren’t religious and was never asked, when being introduced to someone, about my faith or what church I attended. I don’t remember any prayers at school. I can only remember knowing the church of two kids, and the reason I knew that had nothing to do with school. That being said I don’t remember any Muslim families and it was well known that I and like two other students were Jewish. I knew some Hindus in grade school but that was private school; if there were any in high school I don’t remember them. Lots of kids were skeptical of religion (and sexual mores) in high school.
The stereotypical hyper-religious community would look for an excuse to get rid of an atheist teacher, but in real life, who can say. Good teachers aren’t disposable, they grow roots and impact the community. The stereotypical hyper-religious community is a small town where everyone knows everyone, so I’m not even sure how the teacher would be hired in the first place if she didn’t go to church.
~Max
Morally bankrupt perhaps, but not hypocritical. Like speeding, nobody else cares if you don’t hurt anybody and don’t get caught.
~Max
That’s a different argument from the one that I presumed everyone already understood, namely, that the government is more restrained in responding to folks exercising freedom of expression than private employers are.
- Do you agree that that’s true?
- Do you agree that courts have generally found that creating porn is protected by the first amendment?
Nobody’s made that argument because nobody (before you, IIRC) tried to analogize to a private employer’s actions. That’s fundamentally disanalogous, because a private employer can fire you for expression than a public employer can’t.
I AM NOT SAYING THAT THE COURTS WOULD SIDE WITH THE FIRED TEACHERS. Creation of porn does not currently fall under the first amendment protections that adhere to government workers. I am suggesting that, because it does not materially interfere with the government worker’s job, it should.
Government work and private work are fundamentally different, for reasons that I believe are outside of this thread. If you’re unclear on that difference, and if you start a new thread to discuss it, I might join you there.
I don’t know what you mean. For some teachers I had, those ten minutes were for homework-in-class, movie time, etc.
We had the sex ed class replace homeroom period, on one day as I remember. Our teacher explained that he waited until marriage and then showed us lots of pictures of patients with visible STDs, then explained how some contraceptives work. It was definitely not hearing sex stories the last ten minutes of math class every day, that’s rediculous.
~Max
Again, as mentioned by @Left_Hand_of_Dorkness, we are talking about government employees, not in private industry. Private schools can and do enforce all sorts of morality clauses on their teachers.
Part of the reason for this, beyond the 1st amendment concerns, is that parents are the “client” in private schools, but not public schools. Public schools don’t have a client at all, really, any more than the IRS does. You can say it’s the “community”, but so many layers of government are stakeholders in a public system that even that isn’t really true: the school board has to follow State Board policy and, if they are receiving Federal money (which they are), various Federal policies.
That is what YOU were doing. The teacher was likely talking to individual students about makeup or remedial work, submitting attendence, answering questions about the current homework, responding to emails . . .
If a teacher cut instruction short before the bell, its not because they’ve run out of things to do.
Fundamentally, the school board trustees are accountable to the voters, since they are elected. If the voters disapprove of some school board action, the trustees can be replaced. It’s happened to a small extent in my own local school district.
But voters are not just the parents, and its a pretty abstract relationship. Its not at all analogous to a private school, or a law firm.
Oh, definitely. My point is simply that it doesn’t matter what anybody else thinks, it only matters what the voters in that district think.
Okay. From your description it sounded like you were in a highly religious community, some of which are not that small. There is usually no problem with those in other religions, or even those who claim a religion but who just don’t go to church. When I lived in the Congo I went to a school run by Baptist missionaries for their children and the children of the UN people there. My brother and I were the only Jewish kids there, and while they found us odd we never got hassled,
off-topic
Depends on the teacher. We had a few who would watch the movie right along with us. I remember my economics teacher would just waste time during the last bit of class. Showing off some pictures of him & wife remodeling their bathroom, talking about the sports teams, gossip, etc. Often on his phone, perhaps work related but knowing him, probably not. Sometimes watching youtube videos about football, etc.
Now he was worse in that respect than every other full time teacher I can remember. He only taught economics because it was an easy class, it was no secret that his real job was as coach (assistant IIRC). But lots of teachers would gossip w/ students during the last few minutes, after the day’s lesson was done, which is quite different from discussing makeup or remedial work. Many on their phones, maybe doing work-related stuff though.
ETA: I seem to remember all of our teachers had to submit attendance within 10 minutes of the bell. I had a fair share of tardies and that was my understanding - they would submit attendance during bellringers, and everyone who came in later was marked absent and would need to go to the front office to have it changed to tardy. Probably not the case in every district.
~Max
And here is the sad case of a 63 year old University of Wisconsin-La Crosse chancellor:
But maybe the last straw was because he was a vegan…
So you’re arguning that doing porn is the only option left to them? Are hundreds of thousands of teachers doing porn now because it’s their only option to make ends meet?
I suspect - I don’t know because my career in porn was tragically cut short due to lack of fans clamoring to see me having sex - that most of the folks doing porn on “OnlyFans” are doing it as a turn on for them, not for the paycheck.
I’m pretty sure being vegan is illegal in Wisconsin.
I’d like to point out the hypocrisy in this thread. Not a specific poster but Americans as a whole.
We expect you to maintain the highest level of professionalism, even in your personal life. You’re a role model.
Are you going to pay me on the same level as professionals? Those requiring degrees, ongoing training, certification etc.?
Yep. Teachers should be paid more.
Are you willing to pay more in taxes for us to get paid?
Fuck off.
It would have been nice to have lived in a world where behavior could be segregated into different spheres that didn’t interact with each other. But that ship has long sailed.
Many of us vote for every school levy that is put on the ballot. So, yes.