“lef-tenant” from “lieutenant”?
Just wondering. I’ll take my answer off the air. Thanks.
You could also ask why people in Boston hate the letter “r”…they don’t drive a car, they drive a “cah” and they don’t go to a party, they go to a “potty”.
And what is with you all saying “y’all”?
“U” and “V” were once the same letter (“V” in Latin). More recently, “V” and "F"are sometimes cousins – “V” in German is pronounced like “F.” I expect someone will come along with the details here, or show I’m mistaken, but I suspect this is at the heart of it.
OED’s take on it:
Nobody’s checking in on “Rafe”? Leftenant has been explained a number of times but I don’t know any basis for the unusual pronunciation of R. Vaughn Williams and R. Fiennes names.
Some guy named Ralph’s take on it:
Incidentally, it is potentially misleading to call /ˈreɪf/ a “British” pronunciation of “Ralph”, since it seems that the name was never pronounced in this way in Scotland. It is a distinctively English pronunciation – indeed, it appears to be restricted to Southern England and the English Midlands. (In Northern England – or at least in Northumberland – “Ralph” apparently used to be pronounced /ˈra:f/, very roughly so that it rhymed with the contemporary American pronunciation of “half” and “calf”.)
Excerpted from: Home > Ralph Wedgwood, USC Philosophy > USC Dana and David Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences
I don’t know his sources for his contention.
ETA: a previous thread, but I don’t know how useful it will be.
So far as I’m aware, ‘Ralph’ pronounced ‘Rafe’ is restricted to the same English people that rhyme ‘house’ with ‘mice’- I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone called Ralph that doesn’t at least vaguely include a letter ‘l’.
English pronounciation makes no sense to most of the English either, and my friend Mr Featherstonhaugh from Cholmondeley agrees.
I always assumed that was actorly bullshit on his part, like “Topher” Grace’s bizarre shortening of Christopher. Fiennes’ brother’s name is Joseph for Og’s sake!
I can confirm from personal experience that, in Northumberland and Tyneside, Ralph is often pronounced to rhyme with half. Perhaps less often these days, when the name is rarer, and people are less likely to personally know someone of that name, but it’s certainly around.
[QUOTE=DMark]
{snip}And what is with you all saying “y’all”?
[/QUOTE]
A recent thread on the subject I’m sure some of “y’all’ll” find interesting: Hey y'all: is there any difference in how southerners/Texans vs. black people use "y'all"? - In My Humble Opinion - Straight Dope Message Board
Look up Taye Digg’s name origin some time if you want actorly… silliness.
I’d agree except that Ralph (“rafe”) Vaughn Williams considerably predates Fiennes.
Sure, but that could have been who he borrowed it from, and his justification. I mean, he’s a great actor, but I assume he started this a long time ago when he was just starting out.
Holy crap. He get’s Taye from Scott? That’s something right there.
I always thought that “Rafe” was a legit British pronunciation of “Ralph” but now I am not sure. Other than R. Vaughn Williams and R. Finnes, are there any other famous Ralph’s who went by Rafe?
My wife’s piano (who studied at the British conservatory) always claimed that Van Williams pronounced it with the “l”, but the rest of his family didn’t.
While we’re at it, what’s up with the “Vaughan”? Is that a middle name or what?
Here in London we pronounce Ralph as, erm… Ralph.
I think it’s an unhyphenated hyphenate, like Conan Doyle. However, it’s a legitimate double surname, unlike Doyle…
What I’ve never gotten a good explanation of is how Arthur (first) Conan (middle) Doyle (surname) became the Conan Doyle family. It wasn’t his father’s name, but beginning in college and with his marriage, ‘Conan Doyle’ became the family name.
Then there’s Ludwig Mies [(van der) Rohe]… but let’s stop.
Are they related to the Northern Irish, who also swallow their “ow” sounds, or is that shared pronunciation sort of like those animals who are evolutionarily unrelated but coincidentally happen to resemble each other?
Huh. I didn’t even know this was a thing. I always assumed “Rafe” was shorthand for Rafael.
Learn something new everyday.
How do you get Loo-tenant from Lieutenant? Do the barracks’ toilets get clogged up so frequently, they need a dedicated officer to watch over them?