How do you change the nation?

Great Debates
1

Okay, I’m usually one that stays away from GD, because, well, I’m pretty non-confrontational. However, this was an issue that burned me this morning, and I had to put it somewhere where I hoped it would spark some rational thinking, and maybe give me some answers I’ve been looking for.

This morning my father forwarded me a letter (he does this a lot: I read some of them. Most are just snope-able) that deals with outrage over the current political and economic state of the union, focusing mainly on corporate and governmental corruption. I felt the need to write him back. My response is included here for context.

So… I bring this to Great Debates because I have a feeling it may turn into one.
I’m not asking for ‘rise up against the government’. I’m asking what I, one little person living in the suburbs, can do. I think we, as a people, don’t -have- any small thing we can do (other than vote, which is a monolithic, frustrating process). Am I wrong? Someone let me know- I’d be keen to know if there’s something I’m missing here. Some way that the nation can be changed if enough people did ‘x’.
Let me know. I await with bated breath.

2

A good indicator, to me at least, that the nation was changing and it was no longer “business as usual,” would be a third-party candidate coming in in the top two in a presidential election. I seriously doubt that will happen without overwhelming campaign finance reform. So that’s what gets my vote.

3

[Chappelle Show] “Get out and vote?” “BZZT! Wrong answer.”[/Chappelle Show]

Volunteer. Spend your free time helping other people instead of enjoying yourself. If everybody did this, the nation would change by next week.

And…You can’t use a broken tool to fix anything, let alone itself; voting, much as I know this will paint a target on my head to say around here, is totally broken. So also, agitate to change the way it works: decide what you think is broken, and what you think would be better, find the people who agree with you, and find out what they’re doing. Some are lobbying, and need feet on pavement, bodies on the street, to make the pols understand enough people care that it’s worth paying attention to. Some raise money, some spend it, some write articles, some buy the papers they’re in and discuss them. Whatever the change you want to bring, someone else already has a committee on that and it has its own subcommittee which is about to schism off…which is part of the problem, so avoid groups that look like that, but it shouldn’t be too hard. Use your head, but first of all, figure out exactly what you mean by ‘change’ and how much time you’re willing to commit to it.

You’ll feel better.

4

Agreed – and several other structural reforms that might help us move from a two-party system to a multiparty system, permanently (rather than just settling down into a new two-party alignment with different parties, as has happened a couple of times in our history).

Check out the Center for Voting and Democracy and the New Majority Education Fund. Also Wikipedia articles on proportional representation, electoral fusion, and instant-runoff voting.

5

You’ve got three choices; voting, armed revolution, and anesthetizing yourself. Of the three, I’d pick voting. Armed revolution is messy and self-anesthesia may make you feel better but it doesn’t fix the problem.

Some of the other things you mentioned are useful - but only to the extent that they influence the way people vote. Ultimately it’s all about getting votes on a ballot somewhere - if you’re not focused on that goal, then you’re just organized whining.

6

Um, this looks like it will turn into a strictly reform of the 2-party system thread (which I totally agree with) but let me share my other idea.

(BTW, I actually do this, so it’s possible and relatively painless)

Less energy consumption. Duh. But really, most people are too lazy or don’t think about the benefits, and so don’t do anything but continue to drive their SUVs and waste electricity and yadda yadda yadda.

This started (for me) several years back when gas prices were starting to get really bad. I had a Jeep Cherokee, which as SUVs go is mid-size and not a huge fuel-hog. But, I wasn’t carting around all of my carless friends anymore, why did I need a bigger car that wasn’t exactly the epitome of fuel-efficiency? So I bought a little 4-cylinder Nissan (used) and with current gas prices I’m sure that car paid for itself sometime last year.

Then, my BF bought me a bike. I lived quite close to both work and school, and started riding my bike unless I was terribly late or it was raining. So I cut down to about 2 tanks of gas a month. I switched both schools and jobs, so I moved- incidentally, moved to within a few blocks of the bars and movie theatres that were mostly the places I drove to on the weekends- so I only used a tank of gas a month.

Now, I live/work/study downtown, so I can and do walk or ride (well, until last week when some asshole stole my bike) almost everywhere, so the money saved is made even better by the health benefits and no longer having to worry if those 3 beers I had at the bar will impair my driving- now I just walk home.

Now, urban living isn’t for everyone, but it’s still possible for suburbanites to save a little money and energy- smaller cars, more carpooling, walking/riding to the corner store instead of driving. I know it’s hard sometimes- one thing I noticed is that suburban distances seem farther- maybe because the endless repetition of ranch houses is much less interesting than little junk stores and take-out places so you’re bored as hell on that 15 minute walk.

But you can do it other ways too- does your fridge/freezer need to be set to sub-zero? Only if it’s always stocked to the brim because you’re feeding a family of six. Why not turn the AC off (or at least to a higher temp) when you’re not home- programmable thermostats are fairly affordable, and end up paying for themselves fairly quickly.

Little things add up very quickly.I’ve probably saved about 2 grand in the last few years on gas and electric costs alone- not to mention less wear and tear on the car. I started doing this to save money (which is awfully nice in and of itself) but then thought about the ecological benefits too- now I feel like a tree-hugger, but I’m coming to terms with that.

7

You believe the people couldn’t fix the system without an armed revolution, but you also think it’s a good system worth participating in? Remember, the premise of the OP is that voting is not working to achieve the changes he wants, largely because, as Brain Glutton laid out, we need major changes in the voting system. Seems to me that focusing on getting out the vote isn’t going to help fix the voting system. It’s broken, how can we rely on it to fix itself? Doesn’t make sense.

8

I think that, to a large extent, we’re all just pebbles on the beach, and history is the waves. Not just us regular yokels, but all the people who think they’re movers and shakers. The world is what it is.

This doesn’t mean one can’t change things, but there are limitations. Certainly, when it comes to political issues, there has to be an awareness of an issue, and a level of unease felt by a lot of people. There has to be the will to devote considerable time and energy to what boils down to propaganda: harping on the issue, making your point known, fending off challenges. When the time is right, everything will shift, with attendant unintended consequences, but there you are.

On a more micro level, of course, anyone can do a great deal to change things in the sense of helping others. Obviously, in some instances, things you might see as helpful, others might think of as harmful, but you have to go with how you feel. Unless you’re outstandingly politically motivated, this would be the recommended course.

9

No, I never said people couldn’t fix the system without an armed revolution. I’m the guy who said people could fix things by voting. Which means I disagree with those who think voting can’t accomplish anything.

Obviously, going to vote once every four years isn’t likely to make a big impact. If people want to make changes they need to get organized. If you want to make changes you need to start organizing other people. Take whatever issue it is that you want addressed and start telling people what needs to be done. And you have to convince them that what you’re saying makes sense and that they should listen to what you’re saying. Then have the people you’ve convinced go out and tell other people.

And don’t just focus on influencing elections. Legislators vote every day and you want to influence the way they vote.

The OP talks about things like how unfortunate it is that laws get passed restricting abortions or the teaching of evolution. Well, why do you think those laws got passed? It wasn’t because pro-lifers sat around saying, “Isn’t it terrible the Supreme Court handed down Roe v Wade?” or “Wouldn’t it be great if a third party that opposed abortions got elected?” No, it was because pro-lifers got organized the way I’ve described and they went out and worked on making it happen. If they could get organized to pass laws they like, why can’t you get organized to pass laws you like?

10

I would like to thank you all for your input. I will admit, at this time in my life, some of this is beyond me. That which is not, I will attempt to implement. At least I can feel like I’m doing -something-.

Again, thank you.

11

Maybe you could narrow it down to specific things you want to “fix”?

12

You really can’t change others, but you can change yourself. You can take the attitude of “the buck stops here” in everything you do. Make sure all your thoughts and actions are truthful, and honest. Speak out against dishonesty and unfairness. Can one change the many, probably not, but one person doing the right thing will be role model to others. Then if enough people do stand for honesty and integrity the world will change.

13

In truth I think the Neo cons just missed. When the equal time provision on TV was eliminated during the Reagan years, it made right wing talk shows possible. Then they bought TV stations and continued the process. Then they took over the K Street donations shutting the Democrats out of the process. They got their people in the Supreme Court . They got control of the election tabulation system.
The neocons admitted they were trying to remake the system into a new American Century adapted to their control. A war is a perfect way to continue the process. Many who disagree with them will rally around the flag during a war. Politicians know going against a war already started is a great way to lose your seat.If they had hung around a few more years before they pulled the trigger, they may have pulled it off.

14

More later, cause this is important. But for now?
Organize. Raise Awareness. Persist.

15

Being a Doper is a good start. Seriously. In order to change the nation, you need to pay attention to the issues and know where the nation currently stands, then you can try to change that position. And the SDMB is a great place to pay attention. For all the debates here that keep Elmer’s in business, there is still a great diversity of items presented. Following cites posted here have led me to greater awareness on many issues.

Second, the above advice to volunteer is right on the money. Any decent cause usually has more than a few advocacy groups for it. Join one. Get on their mailing lists. Attend their meetings, fundraisers, events, etc, and help them further their goals.

A stick with just one cause for the moment. Learn the issues behind that cause and what is realistic and reasonable and then do what the big boys do - lobby!

I agree with that 100%. Write your representatives! Visit your representatives! Not just at the federal level, but especially at the local and state level. And don’t just offer support, but state a specific goal. “I think X amount of money is needed to fund this program to save/abolish [insert your cause here]!” “I agree/disagree with Senate Bill XXXX, and I urge you to vote/not vote for it because …” “I agree with your position on XXXX - here is a check for your re-election campaign.” (Money talks!)

And do what the really big boys do - write the legislation! This group has some excellent resources - Youth In Government. I wish this program was mandatory to be honest. That would a real civics course, not the crap I was fed in the ninth grade. (Yes, learning how our government is organized is a necessary start - but that was it. Not much on how to actually be involved with our government besides the letter-writing campaign at the end of the semester. Any cites on if legislators even pay attention to those?) Being a citizen does not mean just visiting the voting booth on election day. To be effective, one needs to work constantly with the legislators - the ones who vote all the time and are paid to do so. Get your moneys worth!!!

Also - work for it! If you feel passionate about an issue, don’t just volunteer for an agency or group, but apply for a job with one. Heck - become a professional lobbyist. Think of all the nice restaurants you will get to eat at!

I have also learned that there is a significant difference in magnitude between professional organizations such as the American Cancer Society and the Sierra Club and what I term ‘protest’ organizations such as Greenpeace or PETA.

(Slight hijack - does anyone know the original source for this quote?)

Agnostic Pagan

Trying to practice what I just preached!

16

Not at all. You have other options. Become a writer/commentator. Write letters to the editor. But they have to be good. If you’re really good you may be invited to send submissions in. Write articles for journals on political affairs or start a political blog of your own. But again it has to be good for you to gain an audience and a good reputation. Join a political party, get on committees, and earn a reputation for knowing your stuff. Begin to work on policy changes.

If you really care, there’s plenty you can do but you have to put forth some effort - a lot of effort, sometimes, but it’s not at all impossible.

17

So, basically the fourth option is to try and convince or inspire people to do one or more of the other three options? :smiley:

18

I agree. Why do you feel I said otherwise?

But you have to focus on what your goal is. Are you writing and speaking and joining in order to influence the way people vote? If yes, then you’re working on fixing the problem. But if you’re just doing these things to complain about the problem and to hang out with a bunch of like-minded people who’ll join you in your compaints, then you’ve moved into the anesthesia category. (Or if you start buying weapons and forming a militia, you may be heading towards the armed revolution category.)

19

Because you said

‘Three choices’ is pretty unequivocal.

20

And I stand by what I said.

We’re talking about laws. And laws happen for only one reason - because somebody voted. So voting is the only way you change laws. That’s Choice #1.

Or you can change the system entirely. Throw out all the laws and start over fresh. Start your own country or overthrow the government of the country you’re in. But the only way to do that without voting is armed revolution. That’s Choice #2.

Or you can do everything else. But everything else won’t include changing the law you didn’t like. That’s Choice #3.

I suppose you can argue that there’s a fourth choice - move to another country where you like the laws. But I don’t see that as being a distinct choice - you didn’t change the law you disliked, you’ve just figured out a way to avoid it personally. So immigrating is a subset of Choice #3.

If you feel there are other choices, explain them. But I think every other action will devolve down to one of these three options.

No, it’s not a fourth option. It’s just a repeat of one of the three options, depending on what it is you’re trying to convince people to do.