How do you find faith or belief ?

It finds you.

Well, that was kinda my point: it’s my opinion that there are not two definitions of agnostic. :slight_smile:

(Sometimes I get lazy online and use acronyms when everyone might not understand them: ‘IMHO’ means ‘in my humble opinion.’ Sorry for any confusion!)

Thanks Misnomer, I did wonder what the hell all these folk were up to…:wink:

Perhaps I also have something constructive to add, although I’m not sure it’s at all conclusive, but here goes…

A year and a half ago I made a snap decision to quit smoking. It wasn’t terribly difficult (I used a well known book), and within a month I felt I’d kicked the habit, and now, despite a little ex smoker’s sanctimony, it’s not an issue. However, it quickly became apparent that quitting smoking had uncovered some other small issues which I’d never really addressed or even contemplated before because the denial that I was involved in (IMHO, all smokers are to some extent, but it’s horribly addictive, so it continues) had ‘covered’ them too. At this time I went in for a bit of self therapy. I’m a pretty strong sort of character, a dedicated scientist (job wise and in my logical approach to life) and certainly not the kind of person anyone would think of as having any problems. Anyway, I asked myself some tough questions about what I was doing, were there any little demons I ought to deal with, where was I going etc etc The details aren’t really important, but just to emphasise that these weren’t earth shattering, they were, among other things, completing a piece of overdue work that had been nagging away for months, moving from my shared place to my own, chatting with my boss (I moved from my never permanent to a permanent job 6 months ago with his help), some people from back home I had to talk to, an issue or two with my mother (thanks Sigmund :rolleyes: ). There were others too, but I took them all, big or small, in my stride. It was easy. It was empowering (one for the bollocks-word-bingo).
Now I’m not in a dramatically different position. Very similar job, but moved from academic to private sector. Started to save some money. Pay by bills on time (please, no applause necessary). But what I have is a great sense of peace and pleasure. the feeling that life is good. It’s not perfect, but good.
If this is what religion does to people, I can see why it’s so enthralling. I could never accept that a god exists though, so it’s not for me.
So do I have a point? Yes and no. I cannot say whether you need religion or not to find what you’re looking for, but I suspect that with the obvious desire you have to search, the answer may well be right in front of you. You just need to have the strength to look. It can be a little scary, but damn, is it worth it.

Or maybe beer is the answer!

Got sarcasm? :smiley:

You have it exactly right, we really have no way of knowing if there is a God or not, let alone the kind of God he/she/it is. I do believe, however, we can know and understand our universe. In the end it may be that the sum of all things is God.

I knew a guy who, our senior year in college, decided to become an “ethnobotanist”. This is a fancy term for a young man, in his early twenties, who travels the world in search of new and interesting all-natural ways to get stoned out of his gourd. I guess the readily-available Northeast-American recreational pharmacopia wasn’t enough.

Anyhow, his ethnobotany “research” yielded an epiphany, and he soon began a earnest study of shamanism. From what I have heard, his final years in South America were a period of sublime inner peace and contentment for him, and he felt a oneness with the physical and natural world that he described as transcendant. He was happy in a way few people ever truly experience, I would imagine.

A few months before his 28th birthday, while hiking in the Andes, he was struck by lightning and killed.

And that is the end of that little story.