WTF is John doing with bloody atheists in his room?!
No one can prove it is God’s voice they hear, just believe it is,if it were they could prove it. And why God would tell some one one thing, and then another the opposit doesn’t ring true to me! Muhammed believed an angel came to him and dictated a whole book, said to be from God. One can’t prove that either,but thousands or more believe he did. Belief is not fact. There were women who claimed God told them to kill their children. People don’t believe that,but she must have been convinced it was God’s voice she heard,but it doesn’t make it so.
No, it just means that society at that time needed blood sacrifices to communicate with God, then he changed the way we do business with him..and if if he feels that the current way just isn’t working out(like it has so many times in the past) he just change his mind again(like he has so many times in the past.) Maybe he bring back animal sacrifice, maybe ritualistic stoning, maybe genocide of male enemies and raping of female enemies, maybe drownings of millions-the Ways of God are as various as they are mysterious.
I would treat God like any stranger. If someone I never talked to before asked me to do something violent I’d ignore them. If they needed me to hug a puppy, though, I might oblige.
If the voice is claiming to be God then I’d need verification. Just like if a stranger says they are FBI and need my car I’m going to at least need an ID and preferably a reference from the field office. There are a bunch of obvious ways to prove that one is, if not the top God of all time, at least a being of specifically enumerated magical powers.
Over time, trust in this strange entity may develop to the point where we are besties. But I wouldn’t just trust them more than I trust myself without developing a relationship over time built on demonstrated benevolence and wisdom.
Not according to Judges 11:30-39.
No: born-again Christians believe they have experienced God personally. While few born-agains believe they have heard God’s voice per se, they certainly believe God has communicated with them in a way they could understand.
There are tens of millions of Christians in America who consider themselves born again.
Nah. That’s just Paul’s lame-ass fanfic.
I’m willing to take a crack at this, but I’m not sure how representative my perspective may be and I don’t really want to get into a long list of what I believe since I’m not really sure how much it adds. At least for me, my experiences with God are very seldom voice. My experiences tend to be much more intuitive or experiential. However, I also don’t really believe in the idea of praying to ask for what I want or any of that sort of thing, rather, it’s more in a sense for asking for understanding, clarity, and acceptance around what is going on that I don’t have those aspects in. Thus, in that sense, I will pray about or meditate on one of those things and simply, suddenly, have an understanding.
That’s not to say that there isn’t sometimes confusion on my part. There are times where I’m really hoping for or against a specific answer. But that’s where the specific things that we pray or meditate about are particularly important. That is specifically asking God for something to happen can easily give confusing results, but asking for clarity or acceptance about it, it’s much easier to see the answer because I either get that or I don’t.
Another way it unfolds for me will be in a way of themes. I’ll see a specific thing arise though common events in my life and they’re usually not the sorts of things that can be answered intuitively so they’re more answered in kind. Almost always, these sorts of things are answered by a variation of the same theme very close to my prayer or meditation, and in a few cases, even during them.
That all said, I understand that my experiences in this way aren’t really all that typical, but they align well with how my mind works. As in, my thoughts are often not very audial or visual but conceptual, but I have known people who claim to see visions or hear voices and I imagine their experiences are probably not that different other than being in those forms instead. I really don’t make any attempt to judge the authenticity of their claims one way or the other unless, as mentioned upthread, they are claiming something that contradicts the nature of God.
But the OP is about voices per se. “A feeling in the heart” or some such, which is what I’ve always heard Christians report, is a very different thing.
If an individual is unable to distinguish reality from non-reality, he is suffering from psychosis.
There is no mechanism for a psychotic individual to distinguish whether an auditory hallucination is coming from a higher power, and it’s a common part of the psychosis to believe that God is, in fact, the source.
As a practical matter, if this happens within the bounds of ordinary religious practices or ceremonies, or is secondary to chemical ingestion, it’s not necessary to do much of anything unless the individual has intent to harm himself, or others (or is so incapacitated by the psychosis that he is unable to care for himself).
In those cases, we commit such individuals involuntarily until the psychosis can be resolved, or at least until the danger to self/others resolves.
Note that tests such as benevolence v malevolence are completely useless. A psychotic individual might well attempt to fix the world, and in any case the Old Testament is full of commands from the Lord to kill the innocent (read, for example, the book of Joshua).
Joshua 10:40
So Joshua subdued the whole region, including the hill country, the Negev, the western foothills and the mountain slopes, together with all their kings. He left no survivors. He totally destroyed all who breathed, just as the Lord, the God of Israel, had commanded.
I don’t know if it is in agreement with what you so, or disagreement, but I’m a very firm atheist…and I do much the same thing. I think about a problem in a particular way – try to enter into a receptive state of mind – and, sometimes, an answer pops into my head. FWIW, it’s usually a pretty good answer. But…
As an atheist, I simply attribute it to the unconscious mind. I guess there are at least some believers who would attribute it to a spiritual communication from an outside entity. We’re still stuck with the original question: “How do we know God’s word?”
aldiboronti, in the whimsical dialogue, notes a kind of scientific test that could be applied; if either you or I, by seeking answers, obtained results that are objectively testable and which pretty much elude any other explanation – detailed predictions of tomorrow’s stock market would be nice! – then “outside communication” would be hard to refute. If we only receive generally subjective advice – “Tell your friends the truth; apologize to your uncle; looks like a good time to start a diet” – then something more like the null hypothesis is still favored.
To give a more personal response, I feel like it doesn’t matter whether God really exists or not in this particular reality. It’s academically easy to imagine what God would want - the best outcome for all beings. If you hear God’s voice, it’s fairly easy to determine if the message is in everyone’s best interest. If it is, it doesn’t matter if it’s actually God or just your brain’s extrapolation of him/her. If it isn’t then it’s easy enough to dismiss as a brain fart or Satan tempting you, whichever you prefer.
Belief is a strong point with people who believe it is the Voice of God, but it can only be belief,not fact. They are in reality taking what they believe is the word of God,learned from other humans. So in fact, their belief is bsed on a human definition of their idea of a God.
Actually, I think it’s probably in pretty close agreement. I think that everyone has these sorts of experiences, it’s just that those who believe are likely to attribute them to something related to that belief and those who don’t will attribute it to something else. If God exists, then I don’t think only those who have that faith construct are going to have a connection to him, and if he doesn’t, then we’re obviously not any different then either.
You cannot know. It is theologically and morally imperative to remain aware of your state of not knowing, to continue to question. Faith is where you proceed based on your best conviction, while remaining aware that you might be deluded deceived or just plain nuts.
He sounds like Morgan Freeman?
Agreed. It always makes me nervous when I hear people rather casually talk about God led me to do X or say X. The spirit moved me to do or say X.
There is indeed a moral imperative to maintain an awareness that we are operating on our own judgement based on what we sincerely believe , at this moment. We may feel moved by something greater than ourselves, a connection to a higher or deeper power , a moment of clarity and insight, but the actions that we choose are our own and we have to be willing to face consequences and take responsibility rather than justify and divert by claiming divine direction.
Personally I think the process is similar to what Blaster Master and Trinopus described and find it very interesting that a believer and an atheist can find common ground in recognizing the similarities.
I’d say I am an agnostic , leaning toward some kind of belief, but recognizing that I don’t know, and ultimately, in the day to day process of living and hopefully personal growth, it doesn’t matter.
I agree with those who say you can’t really know in an absolute sense.
I remember reading about Gandhi and he said he had an experience in prison in which he believed he heard the word of God. He was mediating on what to do about a certain issue and, according to him he received insight from an internal voice that he felt was not his own. He said he would never try to convince anyone else that he heard the voice of God but personally couldn’t view it as any thing else.
I’ve had a few very profound experiences that have stayed with me, including one similar to Gandhi’s. In thinking hard about certain situations and issues in my life there was internal voice that offered insight that was so strong it seemed like another voice , not simply my own thoughts.
In my experience people can be so eager to “hear” the voice of God, and be “led by the spirit” that they latch on to emotional experiences and thoughts.
When people say, the Lord led me to say or do X, I always wish they qualify with “I felt” to recognize their personal input also is a big factor. It should be clear to most thoughtful believers that we grow and our beliefs change and evolve as our understanding does. That is also true of groups and society as a whole. That being the case, some humility is called for , and plenty of self examination before we exclaim, “but God told me so”
I frequently have hypnagogic dreams/hallucinations, in which I have the compelling conviction that someone is right there in the room with me. (Once, right there in the bed with me!) Given this history of completely convincing hallucinations, I would have to be very dubious if I had an experience such as Gandhi’s.