Over a number of years various people have told me that God has spoken to them. Being an agnostic, I’ve always been somewhat skeptical of this. But a question keeps bugging me, and now I’m literally dying (figuratively speaking) for an answer.
If God talks to you, in what way do you perceive Him? Warm fuzzy feeling? An outward sign (like a flock of crows)? Intuition? E-mail?
Yes, I am serious about this question.
I don’t really think this is a GQ, but I’ll answer it anyway.
I believe God speaks to us in a few ways. I’m Christian, by the way.
He speaks:
Through his Word, the Bible.
Through another human being, who is usually not aware that they are a vessel through which God is speaking.
In an audible voice, though this is(and always has been) exceedingly rare. Never happened to me and I’ve always been skeptical of anyone who says they’ve heard God’s voice audibly. I do think it can happen, of course.
I think you have two kinds of people we’re talking about here, those that see the “signs” like their car tire was flat so God is telling them they would have been in an accident if they went to work (bad example, sorry) and those that claim to hear his actual voice in their head.
Now I hear voices in my head, but not like you would in your ear. I can imagine I hear my deceased grandfathers voice. But I don’t think this is really someone else speaking to you, rather your own brains interpretation of what the person would say if he/she were here. I think lots of people mistake that inner voice for God.
Well, it’s not a GD yet, as any valid answer would be IYHO. Crap. Shoulda put it in IMHO.
Anyway, thanks for the answers. Since you and I are both skeptical of #3, let’s consider the first two. Let’s say, f’rinstance, that five minutes ago God told me to quit my job as a programmer and told me to get a job as a Strip-O-Gram phone operator. In light of #1, what happened to me? What might be a likely scenario for me to get that from the Bible? How would it work with #2?
It’s called inner dialog or self-talk. Really, people interpret that as divine communication? That’s sad.
Does God speak to me? Yes, but I have to be REALLY paying attention to hear. Mostly #1 and #2 - I’ve had some #3 dreams that some would argue was just my subconscious manifesting itself, but still. I believe, and that’s all I need.
Concerning your latest question, Henry Blackaby, in his book Experiencing God, argues that if you have trouble discerning what God is telling you, you should pray that God puts you were you can best serve Him. If that’s a strip-o-gram operator, well you just be the best strip-o-gram operator you can be.
My cousin’s a stripper (excuse me, exotic dancer) who’s a Christian. Not an evangelical fundamentalist, mind you. But she has no trouble living her life, and she’s proud of what she does for a living. And she feels confident in her choice of work. God loves everyone, even strippers, and she feels that her job has opened doors to her sharing about Christ that would have been closed before. She feels she’s making a difference, and that’s what it’s all about.
But if you have #3, Clouds parting - booming voice - “Thou shalt be a strip-o-gram operator” moment, I’d be doing what the voice said.
Good thought, but it doesn’t really address the question. Cool, I’ll be the best strip-o-gram operator I can be. But how did God tell me this? Let’s take Mahaloth’s idea #2. If my friend says “Strip-o-gram operators are God’s chosen vessels”, how do I know that this is actually God speaking, as opposed to my friend just spouting nonsense? What are the tell-tale signs?
OK this is really going to need to be moved to IMHO…
But say your friend tells you that “Strip-o-gram operators are God’s chosen vessels” (#2), you would try to back it up by reading the Bible and seeing what it says (#1). (Nothing against it per se, even Matthew had a job that was despised and not really “churchy”.) Say your friend said that only cold-blooded murderers were God’s chosen vessels, the Bible absolutely contradicts this. So your friend is wrong (and God isn’t speaking to you through him).
And in the end, How do you know it’s God? Faith. Hope. Love. Faith that God wants you to work with him, Hope that you’ve understood where your needed, and Loving God enough to do whatever is required of you. And trusting that your friend is tuned in enough to know where God wants you to be.
I have experienced what I believe to be the audible* voice of God on two separate occasions; the first time it spurred me into action that quite possibly averted a suicide attempt, on the second occasion it enabled me to find an item of clothing that had been maliciously hidden (its loss was the subject of quite some distress to the owner). One really serious, the other comparatively trivial - Go figure.
*I say ‘audible’, but this is strictly an approximation - it was like hearing a voice, but it was also somewhat different, because I understood the words ‘over there’ as if I had seen someone point with their finger - it is most difficult to properly describe.
I have also on numerous occasions ‘sensed’ what I believe to be ‘God speaking’ inwardly to me, but this is really subjective and wooly; I will not insist on its validity in this discussion.
Religious discussions especially involving witnessing belong in Great Debates.
Off to Great Debates.
DrMatrix - GQ Moderator
Mahaloth’s enumeration works well for me, though I’d add a fourth category – and the one that is strongest for me – the sense that, based on the first two, something is right, the one proper thing for me to do, say, think, in that circumstance at that moment, and I understand that to be His guidance.
Mangetout’s descriptions are fairly similar to my own, though I get the impression that mine are rather more frequent.
I get senses of approval and disapproval, sometimes. Laughter, often. The ‘audible voice’ is. . . like translating to sound from a different language, and I don’t translate to sound so much as meaning. I put a lot of trust in those feelings of approval/disapproval, as they help me navigate things – I make plenty of mistakes, but the things that matter to Them and the spirit I tend to have fairly clear advice on. (Sort of like what Polycarp said.)
I am, somewhat, driven to wonder what the influences of various religious experiences are on the sorts of things one encounters. For example, back when I was attending a Christian church (as a child), I got the distinct impression of presence there, but it was not a presence that was communicating with me; I left Christianity in search of a god or gods that wanted to communicate with me. So communication was one of my priorities; I wound up dealing with gods who were interested in it.
Some of the replies here bring up further questions for me. These are serious questions; please don’t think I am trying to ridicule anyone. This is a great thread because, not being religious myself, I often wonder about these things, but people are often reticent to discuss them.
What I’m wondering is this: How do you explain that the second instance was a relatively trivial thing? I mean, given that God doesn’t deem to intervene in our lives every day, it stands to reason that when He does, it ought to be something really important, like telling you the meaning of life, or how to achieve world peace, or something along those lines. Do you just chalk that up to the mystery of God? And if so, does it bother you that God doesn’t always “make sense”? If you just accept and act on whatever God says, even when it doesn’t make sense, how can you be sure that you aren’t inadvertently doing the devil’s bidding? (Not that finding a lost article of clothing is the devil’s bidding, but hopefully you see where I’m going.)
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But what if the Bible doesn’t necessarily say what you think it should? For example, what if your friend is a snake-handler, or drinks poison, and really wants you to do so as well? But let’s say your common sense tells you that part of the Bible is really more figurative than literal, and you think that snake-handling is dangerous and ill-advised? Wouldn’t that be an example where the Bible actually backs up what your friend is saying, yet it still isn’t the right thing for you?
**I can’t explain it really, the only rationalisation I can apply (and that is all it is - a flimsy rationalisation) is that maybe there was more going on than met the eye; The article of clothing was a cardigan, the owner was an attractive female workmate with rather ample breasts. Some of the lads had swiped her cardigan and hidden it, refusing to give it back for the rather obvious reason that they preferred the view when she didn’t wear it.
By the time I arrived on the scene and she was quite upset and angry, but nobody had any intention of telling her where it was hidden.
I heard a voice (except as I said, it was like hearing a voice and knowing where a finger was pointing, except there was no visible finger, just the weird and not quite describable impression that someone was pointing and talking) “it is hidden in that packing bin over there” - so unusual and unexpected was the experience that I was quite confident it would be found there, so I told her to go and look, rather than just sneaking off and looking for myself. Anyway, she lifted the lid, rummaged underneath the packing chips and there it was.
Maybe the sexual harassment was set to be the final straw that broke the camel’s back and resulted in a chain of events that terminated really badly, maybe not - as I said, I can’t really explain it.
**Yes, it bothers me, and has bothered me deeply at the darkest times of my own life, but what can I do about it?
Well, quite - I suppose it is like building trust, but objectively, maybe it is just the devil or some alien playing a very lengthy joke on me, there isn’t any objective way to tell, but subjectively it seems to pan out OK.
My experiences with God’s direct communication is like Mangetout’s in most cases. I would further add that it’s not simply hearing a voice like my husband speaking to me, but hearing from within in a voice that fills all my senses. It’s “overwhelming”, commanding my attention.
It may have seemed trivial to Mangetout or to you, but it was not for the female coworker who was in great distress. It was for her aid and comfort.
I do not expect God to teach me “calculus” until I’ve mastered “algebra”.
It doesn’t bother me that I do not always understand God’s ways, even in the face of the greatest heartbreak. I know that someday I will see it all and it will be clear.
I only do the devil’s bidding when I act without love.
Perhaps I can answer that with an amusing anecdote. Or perhaps I can’t.
Keep in mind that when I call myself an agnostic, I really mean I’m an atheist, but I haven’t shut all the doors yet. I am, in the true sense of the word, a non-believer.
Last summer I was going through a pretty dark time. My life was pretty much in the crapper. My girlfriend suggested that I pray to God for the things I needed. I reminded her that I didn’t believe in God. She said that was OK, He believed in me. So I prayed, after a fashion. For an apartment and a job. Within a week I had both.
OK, maybe those aren’t small things, but they were undoubtedly selfish. The world wasn’t saved, but my ass was.
How did it work? I chalk it up to good old psychology. By praying, I set myself up for success. Perhaps I went into the job interview with a bit more confidence. Perhaps I was more open to the possibility of the somewhat unusual living circumstance that I took. Or perhaps I just had a plain old stroke of good luck. Twice in succession.
Viewed in those terms, I don’t see how it would be unusual or immoral to ask for the Very Trivial. If “God” wants you to have that new flat panel monitor, “God” will figure out a way. Especially if such a wish is in alignment with your own morals and desires.
But please – let’s not hijack this thread too much. I’m getting some pretty good answers here, even if I don’t entirely understand them all.
Maybe I should make a quick confession as to why I’m asking (which will also explain why I first posted in GQ rather than here). My reasons are entirely selfish and not the least bit noble.
I’m involved in a RPG (of the paper variety). In my world, religion plays a huge part. It is extrordinarily detailed not only for the 10 gods, but in church organization, liturgy, mass schedules, church corruption, etc. Divine intervention is part of the rules system.
What I want to achieve is a sense of agnosticism in the game. Much like real life, I want the players to never quite know if the gods actually exist, or if they are merely a construct of society. I always want there to be a sense of doubt either way. If divine intervention takes the form of the clouds opening up and a giant hand pointing the way, that sense of agnosticism is destroyed. I want subtle and plausibly deniable. And grounded in real life experience.
So if I can draw on the experiences of others, I have the basis for a very realistic and interesting religious aspect to the game. I and my players will get that much more out of it.
Besides, I might accidentally learn something.
I am intrigued, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
To me that sounds like self-talk. Obviously it isn’t, though. Can you explain the distinction, pretty please?
This makes me think about Jaynes’ “bicameral mind” theory: the idea that experience of God, or gods, is down to a style of perception where people can’t see that such voices - for instance, offering solutions to problems - are coming from part of their own minds.
Interesting. This suggests that “it’s all in your mind, and not God at all”, but who says that your mind isn’t the conduit though which God speaks? It’s a fun paradox.
In the OP I stated that God has never spoken to me, but when I think about it, perhaps that’s not entirely true.
Sometimes when I’m composing, I completely lose a sense of self. I’m not aware of the passage of time, and I’m barely aware of what I’m doing. I zone out, while my hands keep working. And what comes out is often brilliant, far better than anything I’m capable doing myself. This is a fairly common phenomenon. It has been well documented, and my girlfriend even taught a class on it.
It’s commonly called dissociation. I suppose one could call it hypnosis. But I swear, when I’m in that state, it’s like someone else is writing, and just using my hands to record the work. There’s clearly another presence there.
It’s pretty weird.
Interesting. This suggests that “it’s all in your mind, and not God at all”, but who says that your mind isn’t the conduit though which God speaks? It’s a fun paradox.
In the OP I stated that God has never spoken to me, but when I think about it, perhaps that’s not entirely true.
Sometimes when I’m composing, I completely lose a sense of self. I’m not aware of the passage of time, and I’m barely aware of what I’m doing. I zone out, while my hands keep working. And what comes out is often brilliant, far better than anything I’m capable doing myself. This is a fairly common phenomenon. It has been well documented, and my girlfriend even taught a class on it.
It’s commonly called dissociation. I suppose one could call it hypnosis. But I swear, when I’m in that state, it’s like someone else is writing, and just using my hands to record the work. There’s clearly another presence there.
It’s pretty weird.