Based on what I’ve looked up, Dahsh is probably the closest English speaking people can do, since we don’t have the sound represented by 'e. It is the “slight stutter” that WhyNot mentions. In IPA, it is [daːʕʃ], or possibly [dæːʕʃ], which is closer to the English word “dash.”
I’m not sure why they use e or 'e to represent the sound. I’d write it just as da’sh.
I could also see us saying DAH-uhsh, having our schwa replace the 'ayn.
Suggestion: why not settle on “death” as an approximation? Seems fair enough.
They present the right information but to make clear
ad-Dawlah al-Islāmiyah fī 'l-ʿIrāq wa-sh-Shām,
Daish or Daesh
الدولة الإسلامية في العراق والشام
The pronunciation of Alessan above is close to how I say it.
Da-esh is quite close.
only in part.
Because the Ayn is not a vowel, it is a consonent that is bearing a vowel.
You do not write 'raq, yes? It is the same thing, in fact the Ayn and the vowel for the usual pronunciation come from Iraq in Arabic (3iraq to use the way many write ordinarily with latin characters)
Thanks for the infos, everyone!
Oh, certainly. I just want to get everyone on the same page. It’s all so untidy, right now!
Hah! Sorry - didn’t mean to be difficult.
I knew it was an alphabet, as opposed to a syllabary or so on. But the English word, alphabet, is taken from Alpha + Beta: the first two letters of the Greek alphabet (which was based on an earlier Phoenician one.) I was also thinking about the Old Norse Runic alphabet, which is called the Futhark, after its first six letters.
I don’t know what the first two letters of the Arabic alphabet is. Maybe it’s the Arabic equivalent to Alpha & Beta? I don’t know. But I was assuming that they don’t use the English word. So I was wondering what the Arabs call their version of the alphabet.
Cool. I did not know that word!
See - this would have been my guess, but then I keep hearing people say, Diesh and Dash.
Tempting. “Daeshbags” does rather roll off the tongue.
Alef, Ba - yes it is exactly the same. abjad (abjd) shows the first letters.
I don’t know. But I was assuming that they don’t use the English word. So I was wondering what the Arabs call their version of the alphabet.
Allessan’s ears are right.
The regular word* for alphabet is هجاء hijā’. There are two alphabetical orders in Arabic. The main one, used in dictionaries and primers, is called hijā’ī.
*By “regular word” I mean it’s derived from the standard Semitic root. Whereas abjad is originally an invented word, not derived from a root (although conversely a root might be derived from a new rootless coinage or a loanword).
Abjad, in Arabic, in the narrow sense, means the other alphabetical order that isn’t used as much. Abjad is short for the traditional mnemonic vocalizaton of the whole alphabet in this order with a series of nonsense words made by sticking in enough vowels to make it pronounceable:
abjad hawwaz ḥuṭṭīy kalaman sa‘faṣ qurishat thakhadh ḍaẓagh
This arrangement uses the order of the corresponding letters in the Hebrew alphabet, if you remember that jīm=gimel. The first 22 places are the same as the Hebrew alphabet, and the remaining 6 letters are added at the end in the order that they already appear in the hijā’. This allows the Arabic alphabet to have numerical values assigned to them same as Hebrew gematria. With that you can total up the numbers in your name, seek mystical correlations between words with the same numerical total, compose chronograms with the year encoded in the letters…
But the main use of abjad today is as an alternate numbering system. Just like we use Arabic numerals for the main pages in a book and lower-case Roman numerals for the front matter (tables of contents, acknowledgements, lists of abbreviations, introduction, preface, etc.), in Arabic books they use the Arabic alphabet for the main pages and abjad for the front matter. Anytime they need a set of numerals to contrast with the usual Arabic ones, like we use Roman numerals.
The answer to the OP is quoted above in post #20: [ˈdaːʕiʃ]. There are two syllables, 2 vowels: long [a:] and short *. That’s pretty much DA as in “dash” followed by ish as in “issue.” If you can’t pronounce the letter ‘ayn, you can skip it, just substitute a slight hiatus between vowels. DA-ish.
Learn to say Dā‘ish and use it instead of ISIS or ISIL. One, it drives the badguys nuts, and two, we need to unburden the name of the Goddess much loved and adored by many Pagans from any association with those no-good varmints. Isis Books and Gifts in Denver, a Pagan store much frequented by me when I lived there, is getting repeatedly vandalized these days because of their name. It was a colossal mistake to ever make that acronym for the badguys.
^ you won’t see it unless you use Tapatalk, but that post got a big ol’ Like from me. So much agreement, on all points!
That doesn’t agree with the link WhyNot gave earlier, where there is no * vowel. She says [daːʕʃ] (or possibly [daːʕaʃ]–it’s hard for me to hear where the 'ayn stops) as I wrote before. Is the woman in the link wrong, or is there dialectical variation? Or are there questions on exactly how to create an acronym, being so uncommon in Arabic?
I mean, she sure sounds like she knows what she’s talking about, so you’d think she’d say it correctly.
(Yes, I know I’m being far more strict about this than any sane person. :p)
She says it with an accent but is more of a e I would suppose. In arabic we do not have a clear distinction between i and e.
You will not hear where it ‘stops’ as the 3ayn and the vowel influence each other. I can say 3ayn with a fatha (“a”) or a kesra (“i/e”) either way.
She speaks in Arabic with a british accent to my ears. She is after all a british, Alice Guthrie. It is a very good Arabic that she speaks, but it has the accent in the vowels.
this has no thing to do with the acronym, you simply do not understand the 3ayn.
I thought the correct way to pronounce it was asshole
The Roman (or Latin) alphabet derives from the same source as the Arabic one. Both are alphabets.
If you compare the Arabic, Hebrew, Greek, Latin/English, and Cyrillic alphabets side-by-side, it becomes clear that they are all essentially the same alphabet, with a few variations. For example, they all begin with some variation of A, B C/G, D, and they all have K, L, M, N, P or some equivalents together in the middle.
When it comes to Arabic, my professional colleagues generally regard me as knowing what I’m talking about. In Modern Standard Arabic there are only three vowels: a, i, u. There are only 3 marks for indicating vowels in writing: fatḥa, kasrah, ḍammah, respectively. There are many dialects through the Arab world where these 3 have mutated through various sets of extra vowels. But the Arabic used in the news media is Modern Standard Arabic, which is the only form common to all Arab countries.
The acronym داعش Dā‘ish incidentally forms the very common word pattern known as fā‘il, which means the active participle, the doer of an action, and as such will be immediately familiar to anyone who knows Arabic. (note to Alessan: this corresponds exactly to the Hebrew po‘el.) My point is that the short vowel /i/ in the second syllable is universally recognized by Arabic speakers to exist there, and in Standard Arabic (unlike in British English, which reduces short unstressed vowels) every vowel is pronounced with its full value.