How do you pronounce "Genevieve"?

[rocking_chair]

jacqueline tends to have the same problems as genevieve.

[Cervaise]

Is Jacqueliine also a mediocre decorator with overlarge breasts?

[commasense]

*Originally posted by acsenray *
**Well, “erratic” would have the “a” in “cat.”

In my Midwestern accent, we merge together a lot of vowels that are differentiated in other accents. All the words within these sets are pronouced identically –

Mary, merry, marry
caught, cot
horse, hoarse
do, dew
pearl, purl
**

Well, the words in the first two sets can be, and properly are, pronounced differently. But are there possible different pronunciations of the last three sets?

[Cartooniverse]

Jahhn-Vee-Ehve

As in Jahhn-Vee-Ehve Booo-Jold.

[mackeff]

Mary, merry, marry
caught, cot
horse, hoarse
do, dew
pearl, purl

Well, the words in the first two sets can be, and properly are, pronounced differently. But are there possible different pronunciations of the last three sets?

I pronounce ‘caught’ & ‘cot’ the same but ‘do’ as “doo” and ‘dew’ as “dyoo”.

• from a Canadian west-coaster with an English mother

[Hilarity_N.Suze]

On the authority of my white-trash great-Aunt Genevieve, it’s “Zhun-vee-ev” when you’re outside the family circle and “Jenna-veev” at reunions and there’s no point trying to change these people, they’ve just got no ear at all.

[MonkeyMensch]

*Originally posted by acsenray *
…we merge together a lot of vowels that are differentiated in other accents. All the words within these sets are pronouced identically –

Mary, merry, marry
**

There was always a running joke in my father’s house regarding Baltimore accents. He grew up in the area and used to remark how they were three separate words:

Mary: MAY-ree
Merry: Murray
Marry: Mah-ree.

It’s so easy…

[BobT]

I just call my niece Genny and leave it at that.

[Acsenray]

Well, the words in the first two sets can be, and properly are, pronounced differently.

“Properly are”? Maybe in your accent, but not in mine. I would venture to say that making such a judgement is not going to further a discussion on pronunciation in a valuable manner.

[commasense]

*Originally posted by acsenray *
**“Properly are”? Maybe in your accent, but not in mine. I would venture to say that making such a judgement is not going to further a discussion on pronunciation in a valuable manner. **

I’m not taking an attitude, and I’m not saying anything your dictionary doesn’t say. Check and I think you’ll find it specifies a different pronunciation for each of those words.

In fact, in ordinary speech I myself rarely manage to distinguish between “merry” and “Mary.” (The first has a short e sound, as in “kettle;” the second is a long-a diphthong, as in “air.”) But in “standard speech” (whatever that is) the distinctions between Mary, marry, and Murray should be quite clear. IMO.

[bordelond]

*Originally posted by commasense *
**I’m not taking an attitude, and I’m not saying anything your dictionary doesn’t say. Check and I think you’ll find it specifies a different pronunciation for each of those words.

In fact, in ordinary speech I myself rarely manage to distinguish between “merry” and “Mary.” (The first has a short e sound, as in “kettle;” the second is a long-a diphthong, as in “air.”) But in “standard speech” (whatever that is) the distinctions between Mary, marry, and Murray should be quite clear. IMO. **

(Boy, is this thread meandering … but good discussion!)

Commasense, you’ve hit the nail right on the head when you wrote “standard speech (whatever that is)”. English has no one adopted standard.

No dictionary accounts for all the idiosyncracies of every English dialect. Furthermore, no dictionary can serve to demonstrate authoritative proper English pronunciation. What a dictionary does do is give users, for each word, a subset of acceptable pronunciations.

While dictionary makers strive to describe the English language as best they can, they actually capture only an imperfect portrait, missing detail here and there.

[Tradnor]

From Merriam-Webster:
merry: 'mer-E
marry: 'mar-E also 'mer-
Mary: 'mer-E, 'mar-E, 'mA-rE

(“also” indicates a less frequently occurring, but still standard, variant.)

So according to the dictionary, all three words can be pronounced the same in “proper” speech. But even they admit,

Readers often turn to the dictionary wanting to learn the exact pronunciation of a word, only to discover that the word may have several pronunciations, as is the case for deity, economic, envelope, and greasy, among many others. The inclusion of variant pronunciations disappoints those who want their dictionary to list one “correct” pronunciation. In truth, though, there can be no objective standard for correct pronunciation other than the usage of thoughtful and, in particular, educated speakers of English. Among such speakers one hears much variation in pronunciation.

[Acsenray]

But are there possible different pronunciations of the last three sets?

Yes there are, in many accents, for example in the British RP and in Eastern American Theater accents, all these words are pronounced differently. Because they’re not in my accent, it’s difficult for me to explain them, though.

In general, there are two vowels here, one represented in the International Phonetic Alphabet. One is represented as a “turned c” or “open o.” The other is a “turned script a.”

You can find examples at the home page of the alt.usage.english newsgroup – http://alt-usage-english.org/ipa/ascii_ipa_combined.shtml. This page mentions all of these distinctions.

[Acsenray]

Let me try making that link
again.

[elmwood]

What about the Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young song “Genevieve,” where it’s pronounced GWEN-uh-veer?