From that interaction, I would expect Joe to learn not to give Bob unwanted cookies in the future.
Of course, regarding the wheelchair thing, it seems that (allegedly) all wheelchair users hate being treated like invalids with regard to held doors. So if all wheelchair users jumped down overambitious helpers’ throats, then eventually such helpers would learn to be a little less overambitious, to the betterment of all society everywhere.
So clearly we should be praising the OP and criticizing wheelchair users who endure it with a smile.
Actually, I just posted about how I also shared this story with a closed facebook group for wheelchair users. The responses were very very similar, some with more anger even than myself. So pretty much the answer to your question is, “yes”, with caveats and exceptions, of course. But the rule is “yes” wheelchair users, as a group, find such behavior and perceptions troublesome, anger-inducing and isolating.
And people keep harping on my “reactions” as if I just work myself up into a tizzy every time I get treated in a way I don’t approve of. I don’t know how to communicate the reality of my situation other than to articulate that reality with words as clearly as possible. Sadly that doesn’t seem to pierce the veil of ignorance/misunderstanding with some. Again, the overwhelmingly vast majority of such instances I have developed a healthy level of “thick skin” and deep sense of self. I do not say or do or express anything to the people who are unwittingly mistreating me. It is the rare, rare exception when I do. I’ve shared I think 3 instances of such behavior on this board. And where is there a better place to vent and find relief than online? I’ve been living with this reality for just about 2 decades. I’ve grown older with this reality, I’ve grown wiser with it and with life itself. To suggest that I haven’t adopted different strategies in re to this phenomenon is simply false.
I didn’t react in the story in the OP with anger, or viciousness or anything that can be described as “losing my shit” or “intentionally being rude” or any of the mischaracterizations made here on the board. I simply and calmly stated what I firmly believed to be the actual reality behind the man’s actions, as well as his impact on myself. No “angry wheelchair guy” pitfalls here, simply one human being telling another human being that they did not treat them as equals. I may have not used the best words but I didn’t have time to really think about them and go back and edit my thoughts. They were spur of the moment words. The characterization of this man as the hapless do-gooder and myself as the angry asshole are part and parcel of the whole issue.
True. But that is a distinct thing from believing I am incapable of developing such muscularity as a disabled man, a wheelchair user. “Did you used to be an athlete” directly implies I am no longer an athlete. “Did you used to workout” directly implies I no longer workout. The ignorance here has nothing to do with not knowing the first thing about muscularity or fitness. It has to do with not knowing the first thing about disability. The unspoken belief is that now I am disabled, I can no longer be an athlete and I can no longer work out.
I had a friend growing up whose parents were foreign. His father was Syrian and his mother was Maltese. OMG did they have this custom, to a T. And it was done in the most loving, caring way (at least by the mother lol). Even when I would be close to vomiting, they merrily would be dumping more (actually delicious) food onto my plate. They also had this weird habit (I don’t know it this was a cultural tradition or just their tradition) of not having anything to drink when they ate. It impeded the flow of food, I was told. All I know is I would be scared any time I ate over when the father was home (the mother was flexible with these things, the father, a spiitting image of Saddam, was an intimidating man).
I keep flipping back and forth from this thread to the Facebook thread. I wasn’t even expecting the intensity and level of just, well, violation, that many of these fellow wheelers have endured. I wish there was some way I could share the thread without identifying anyone in the group. It really would silence some people here I imagine. One such wheeler was sitting in the cafeteria in college (by himself, mind you) and was approached by a stranger who inquired if he could feed himself. One other person had her car damaged because one do gooder took it upon themselves to “help” her get her chair into her car, without even asking in the first place (oooh i have a doozy of a story in that vein). And they go on and on.
You cannot make such a statement from a group on FACEBOOK who choose to respond and who may feel aggravated enough to do it. How many respondents on Facebook? How many wheelchair users in the world? How was your “survey” statistically significant? Tell me, how are all wheelchair users the same? How is it that each and every person has the same injury/handicap?
OK, if you say so, all handicapped people are the same. I’ll start treating them that way. If I ever meet ONE person who is happy to have help pushed on them I’ll extrapolate that to ALL of you. Right? You’re all just an homogenous group with hive mind?
It’s neither ignorance or misunderstanding to tell you, or any other individual, handicapped or not, to get over yourself. We ALL have to put up with pushy and overbearing dickheads. You’re not special in that regard despite wanting to think that you are just because you get it more often. People are more likely to treat you as a victim when you act like one. Judging every misguided fool as “mistreating” you is an attitude that just perpetuates the victim stereotype.
I’m a victim because everyone mistreats me by assuming I’m incapable! Don’t treat me like a victim because I’m not!
I disagree and I think some of y’all our underestimating your fellow man by asserting this. “You might get a bad reaction if you are too pushy with your ‘niceness’ ” is an easy lesson to take from an exchange like this, and most decent people have it in them to grasp it with a little introspection.
At one time or another we will all piss someone off unintentionally and catch flak for it. Speaking of things that are not a big deal in the grand scheme, it’s that fact of life. Just the other day, my big pregnant self was waiting to get on the train and was partially blocking the flow of traffic. Heard a passerby mutter to me under their breath “get out of the way!” Now, that didn’t make me feel too good, I can tell you that. Made me think rather unkind things about that person. And yet, in looking back at the situation, I can admit that I was blocking the path unnecessarily and should’ve been more conscientious about where I was standing. My behavior will likely change now so that I don’t do that again. Doesn’t mean it was cool for the stranger to say that to me in that way, but I still got corrective feedback that is meaningful.
I think the guy in the OP will still offer to open doors for people (because I assume he’s a good person at heart) but he will probably think twice before he acts on his impulse to do what he did with ** Ambivalid**.
You asked for folks opinions, folks have given their opinions, every single one that doesn’t acknowledge YOU as a victim is summarily dismissed as ‘not knowing/understanding’ what it’s like to be in a wheelchair.
I spent two years using a walker, during much of which I was dragging my right leg behind me. Does that count?
I am not saying it isn’t a pain in the arse. I’m saying that you actually do have a choice to be more positive about it. You are a gatherer of grievances, Ambi, and you bring them here an vomit them out. This is not new.
You do have a choice to take things differently and focus on a different aspect of the situation.
Today, Cookie Monster Fairy tried to force a bagel on me. On two separate occasions, each with multiple iterations of insisting. She didn’t even bring in the bagels. They were just meeting left-overs growing stale in the breakroom. And again, only I was subjected to her force-feeding.
I gave myself permission to be visibly frustrated and I said rather pointedly, “Look, you are not the only person around here who is watching their carb intake. So please quit it.”
“But you’re so skinny!” she replied.
I felt my eyes bug out of my head and I just glared at her. And then with a tiny baby voice, she told me she’d stop pestering me and went back to her cubicle.
She’s a sensitive person, so I know I probably hurt her feelings. As cruel as this sounds, I don’t give a fuck. I really and truly don’t. All I care about is getting her to stop her annoying behavior. Being polite hasn’t worked. Sometimes you really do need to bug out your eyes and show some emotion to get a message across.
So thanks for creating this thread, Ambivalid. You helped me to grow a pair.
So what? Everybody might have “something”, but not all “somethings” carry the same weight nor do they all cause problems at the same frequency. And not all “somethings” are equally talked about. Awareness is on the rise regarding issues that black folks experience with cops, for example. But ablism doesn’t get that much attention.
I’m not treating Ambivalid differently than I’d treat anyone else in his position. If an able-bodied man had the exact same encounter he had with the pushy door opener guy, I would not fault him for taking it as an insult and having something blunt to say about it.
All empathy means is seeing things from another person’s vantage point with an eye towards understanding how certain things might make them feel, even if *you * wouldn’t necessarily feel that way if it happened to you. Sympathy is more akin to feeling sorry for someone.
I don’t know that I would have bothered correcting the fellow, but I agree that it was warranted. I have had to deal with actions like that quite frequently since my vision went to shit. About the only times that I bother telling the person that I really don’t need help is when it is some dude trying to guide me by grabbing my arm, which actually makes it MORE likely, not less, that I will fall on my face. Oh, and I do tell pretty young girls, always reluctantly, that I don’t really need to be led around by the hand when they offer.
Nice. And why didnt you bring up the disability until now? I repeatedly asked you what made your comparison relevant and you replied “it was because i was a woman”. Now you drop this on me. Of course that changes things. But it still doesn’t account for the 23 years you said you experienced the exact same things as me “multiple times a day”. And you be you. But dont try to tell me anything about myself or my life. The problem to which i speak is a societal one, not an individual one. If i am an “gatherer of grievances” then so are myriad other wheelchair users.
And as far as your delightful characterisation of me, well, lets just say your ignorance blinds you. Its ok, I’m not judging you. And saying “it’s not new” as if me discussing the mistreatments i receive interacting with the world as a wheelchair user are some frequent or normal thing, please. You have to cherry-pick the handful of times I’ve discussed such things on the dope to even make it appear such things are true. A subject that is brought up infrequently enough to count on one hand, by a relatively prolific poster, in 7 years, is not anything unusual, imo.
Incorrect. Its when people tell me who/what i am. Those arent opinions. And even when opinions are given, there is nothing wrong with giving my own opinion as a response. Tis conversation.
Your reaction to anyone here who didn’t immediately fall to their knees at the Altar of Ambivalid has been at best dismissive, and at worst, downright rude and hostile. You asked for opinions, you got them.
And for the record, I agree that the person who ignored your refusal of help was out of line. What his motivations were, I will never know. Nor will you. Personally, if I’m ever slighted by a stranger in any way, I try to give them the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps YOU could have cut this bloke a bit of slack. And no, of course, you don’t have to nor maybe SHOULD you have to. Sometimes though, it’s easier to smile than to get cranky
So, if your memory of what you said to him is anything to go by, I would think you were the bigger dick in that exchange. And given how you respond to posters HERE who piss you off, I’d be thinking that your response to Mister Misguided Samaritan was possibly a bit more vehement and vitriolic than you have claimed.
You posted in IMHO. You did NOT want a free exchange of opinions. You wanted to rant about the way disabled folk are oft times considered as lesser people in this world. Doubt you’d get much argument there really.
Should have left it as a rant and bunged it in the Pit.
And saying “it’s not new” as if me discussing the mistreatments i receive interacting with the world as a wheelchair user are some frequent or normal thing, please. You have to cherry-pick the handful of times I’ve discussed such things on the dope to even make it appear such things are true. A subject that is brought up infrequently enough to count on one hand, by a relatively prolific poster, in 7 years, is not anything unusual, imo.