Superdelegates and the 2nd ballot exist to give the elites a veto on the candidate. That isn’t democratic or fair by any stretch. They are part of the rules in the same way that the ToS agreements of all the tech we use every day is part of the “rules.” The candidates just click “yes” and agree to it because what other option do they have if they want to run.
But good luck explaining to enraged voters of how the Party’s ToS is actually a good thing and not at all solely meant to screw over candidates who make the moneyed class recoil in horror.
I mean if he has the most primary delegates. My mistake.
Of course, the person who got those rules was Bernie Sanders
His supporters will whine and pout, and may make noises about forming a third party. In the end, they’ll either vote for the Dem nominee or know that they are responsible for Trump’s second term. This needs to be the final stake through the heart of Bernie, the Bernie Bros, and the extreme liberal wing of the Democratic party. Bernie, AOC, and their ilk are a cancer on the party, and should be excised promptly and firmly.
That’s the one. Thanks for fixing the link.
Bernie might say that - after all, that’s pretty much what he said at the 2016 convention when, IIRC, he personally called for the convention to nominate Clinton by acclamation. His voters, on the other hand, might think, “The only way we can get Sanders elected before 2028 is if Trump wins in 2020 - and this also gives us the chance of having not only Bernie, but both a House and a Senate that can pass his bills.”
I don’t think this is a reasonable view of them. They are far from extreme. They are left of where the majority of the party is but they have been a good influence and a reflection of where progressive society is heading. Where they have fallen short is not in their positions but in the work it takes to vet and explain the details of their plan. Too often it seems as if, “…and a bit of magic happens here…”, is their plan to get from A to B.
Some will whine, absolutely no doubt. But most of them? I don’t think so. In any case, I do not see him, nor AOC, nor others with similar positions on the issues going anywhere. They are the future of the Democratic Party. Thank the lord.
Bernie should be way too dead to run in 2028.
Looking at the current 538 snapshot of today, they would predict
40.2% going to Sanders
36.5% going to Biden
15% going to Bloomburg
6.1% going to Warren
1.6% going to Klobuchar
and presumably the other 0.6% going to other candidates.
So Bernie has the most delegates, but not a majority.
Assuming that Blomburg’s delegates would prefer Biden to Sanders (I think this is a pretty safe assumption) then in round 2 Biden wins a majority over Sanders even without any Superdelegates.
This to me doesn’t feel like a failure of democracy, or a From the beginning the Democratic primary has basically been a contest between the moderate and progressive halves of the electorate. It would seem to me to be more of a failure if the majority prefers the moderates but the progressive side wins due to having multiple viable candidates. Effectively, the Democratic convention rules mimic rank choiced voting, something which the progressive wing of the party seemed to strongly support in theory until it looks like it won’t give them the answer they wanted.
I won’t go as far as the last sentence. Bernie and AOC bring a viewpoint to the party and represent a segment of the population whose voices need to be heard. The Democratic tent is big enough to include them, though Bernie will quickly call himself an Independent once he is denied the nomination. Neither Bernie nor AOC have any business running for president, though AOC has more credibility since she is actually a Democrat more than a few months every four years.
All the more reason to vote for someone who would allow Bernie to run in 2024.
Meanwhile, here’s another of my crazy ideas, although I’m not sure if this would work under the current rules: if the vote does go to a second ballot, then, after each state votes, there is a call for a Roll Call of the state’s delegates (which, if I am reading the rules correctly, happens if at least 25% of the delegates demand it), which would put each of the superdelegates on the spot as to whether they support Sanders or not. However, a roll call of delegates within a state may no longer be “public,” where they read out the name of each delegate and they audibly reply, but just done by sending an official to the delegation and taking each delegate’s vote in writing.
Sanders supporter here.
I’ll vote for whoever the nominee is, because Trump.
However, at this point, I’ve become disillusioned with the party… and I live in the damned SDMB “liberal bubble”, but still feel like I and others like me are expected to shut up and vote for the Dem, regardless, while watching our party march ever rightward. Despite over a decade of evidence to the contrary, a large contingent STILL believes that somehow the Republicans will SUDDENLY want to work to enact legislation put forth by the Democrats if its Joe Fucking Biden in the White House rather than Bernie Sanders, when the reality is they wouldn’t vote for the “Republicans Get Supreme Power Bill of 2021” if it was offered up by a Democrat.
I’m tired of watching the nation’s money get funneled to the top 1%. I’m tired of living in a plutocracy that calls itself a democracy. I’m tired of watching people in BOTH parties being convinced to vote against their own self-interest.
It’s time for a fucking change.
If the Senate changes, they’ll hold the balance of power vis a vis a progressive versus moderate agenda no matter who reclaims the White House. If it doesn’t flip, then there won’t be any “fucking change” except if it’s by endless executive orders.
Pretty much. Also its ironic that all that ‘vote blue no matter who’ talk only seems to apply when the liberals are upset. When moderates are upset were all supposed to placate them.
Also the moderate candidate has lost every presidential election for the last 20 years. Gore was to the right of Bradley, and Gore lost the general election. Kerry was to the right of Dean and he lost the general. Obama was to the left of Clinton and he won the general. Clinton was to the right of Sanders and she lost the general.
But if Sanders loses in 2020, the liberal wing is supposed to pack it up and shut up because at that point, the liberal wing will have gotten 1 out of 6 elections wrong while the conservative wing of the democratic party will ‘only’ have gotten 5 out of the last 6 presidential elections wrong.
In what way was Obama to the left of Clinton? His healthcare plan during the primary run didn’t require everyone to sign up, for example. Clinton’s plan did (and the eventual law did as well), and that’s a more left-leaning stance. Do you have any examples?
Vote Blue No Matter Who seems to apply to everyone from what I can tell. We have non-Sanders supporters all over this board saying they’ll vote for Sanders in the general, so I don’t know where you got that from.
And with all due respect, what are you going to do when you finally realize we don’t want your fucking revolution? Be even nastier?
In 2016 it was obvious to just about all Democrats that Clinton was going to beat Trump anyway so nothing would be lost by sitting out the election for moral principles (that Clinton was a tool of big business, that Clinton was too Hawkish…)–so a fair number of Sander’s supporters did this [and of course just about all Democrats turned out to be wrong about the election result].
This time Sander’s supporters realize that if they sit out Trump will win–so they will vote for the lesser evil–Biden or even Bloomberg.
Figured you’d chime in. wipes the venom off his face
I was nasty?
The Dean being to the left of Kerry is also pretty interesting to me. On the Iraq War, Dean definitely was to Kerry’s left, but Dean was a very centrist Governor of Vermont, had endorsements from Al Gore and had more superdelegates than anyone before Iowa. Kucinich called Dean a “Rockefeller Republican”. Dean was leading in all the polls as well. He just finished a very disappointing 3rd in Iowa and that hurt him massively.
For example:
I think Kerry was more left on ‘federal intrusion into local authority’ in education, Dean more left on the Iraq War, and then you can make a case for either position on the 2001/03 tax cuts.