Let's keep sneering at "Bernie bros", it worked so well last time.

Was it worth it? Getting Trump as president for the last 4 years so that you could sneer at some people who wanted a different candidate than you? It must’ve been, because here you are doing the exact same thing 4 years later.

I mean, who would want all these energized young voters to come to the polls and support your party? That’s certainly not worth slowing down a little bit on being a condescending prick.

You guys went so fucking hard on this bullshit “Bernie Bro” smear that you tried your best to alienate the next generation of people who were favorable to you. Do you think that was a good strategy? Do you think that worked positively for you in the election? Do you think that’s going to help this time?

Now - I’m not one of those kids that’s so energized, to be clear. Because not everyone who wants a candidate that’s left of a moderate republican all has some collective “Bernie Bro” mindset. I can almost certainly guarantee that I’m more well informed than you are on these political issues, and yet you’re dripping with so much hatred and condescension and assumptions about me, reducing me only to a “Bernie Bro” as if supporting the most sincere, honest, and consistent politician in the last 50 years in American politics somehow makes me a simplistic clone who is only following some slogan or joined some cult.

Bernie’s coalition is actually much broader than the young “Bernie Bros” you try to smear, because we haven’t had an actual leftist candidate in the public eye in this country for over 40 years.

You corporate dick sucking third way right wing democrats are doing your absolute best to make sure no one who isn’t already on your side doesn’t join it. I voted for Hillary and I didn’t like it, in no small part because you assholes forced me into the choice and then sneered and mocked me, asking me what choice I had, gleeful that you broke the spirit of someone who was trying to use their vote to do good. But I have no doubt that you alienated a lot of people with these tactics who didn’t end up voting against Trump, and here you are, learning absolutely nothing, ready to do it all over again.

Additionally, I’m actually quite intimately familiar with the conspiracy mindset. I’ve actually spent quite a bit of time within the skeptical movement and in general learning all sorts of things about all sorts of bullshit. Believing there to be one conspiracy or ulterior motives behind an event doesn’t make you a “conspiracy theorist” - the conspiratorial mindset is a belief system and value system that sees a conspiracy in everything, and weaves all evidence, including disconfirming evidence, to reinforce their idea of the conspiracy. There are actual conspiracies - like the conspiracy for the Republicans to basically commit a slow fascist coup right under our noses. I’m not engaging in conspiratorial thinking to think that the democratic party and the rich they serve are doing what they can to fight against Bernie - there’s a clear history of it.

The democratic party does not like Bernie because they work for the rich almost as much as the Republicans do, they’re just a little more subtle about it. They allowed Bernie to run within the party apparatus because they thought he could bring in some enthusiasm and voters and then be conveniently discarded. The rich own almost all of our media, and there’s no doubt they’re engaging in a Bernie Blackout to stifle any positive news about Bernie. I read and listen to quite a lot of news, and it’s remarkable how often I’ll see a post about a huge rally for Bernie that would’ve been a top story for any other candidate simply not get mentioned at all - people have to post their own cell phone videos of the event.

The democrats has an organic, wildly popular movement to fight against the rise of right wing populism, and they’re deliberately doing everything they can to suppress it because they’re not actually progressive in their agenda, they serve the rich and corporations first and foremost, and someone who wants to move the country actually leftward is a thread to them. It very well may have gotten us Trump the first time, and you guys have apparently learned absolutely nothing and rush in to insult and condescend and alienate that entire movement yet again.

You basically tried to dare me not to vote for Hillary by reducing my sense that voting matters after the scales were weighted in the 2016 primary, sneering, laughing at me, asking me what was I going to do - not vote against Trump? Now grow up and vote for Hillary like a good little Bernie Bro. And it made voting against way, way harder than it should’ve been. It shouldn’t be a bitter pill to vote against pure evil. But you assholes are working so hard to alienate people that it is.

So when the 2020 primary is rigged to force Biden or Buttigieg on me, am I supposed to just gladly suck it up again? Are you going to mock me again and say “what are you gonna do, vote for Trump? Shut up, take your medicine, act like an adult and vote for the corporate dick sucker” sure will make me feel good about doing this the second time. And after millions of people did that 4 years ago, and it didn’t even work - how do you think we feel about it now?

We’re losing our fucking country to corruption and fascism, and you’re working hard against your own natural allies just so you can feel a little smug about “Bernie Bros”. This is how you snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. This is how you alienate an entire generation of youth who are setting records with huge crowd sizes and numbers of small donors who desperately want to be involved in the political process. You beat it out of them, tell them they’re stupid for ever having wanted to get involved or having an opinion different from yours, and then bitch because the younger generation doesn’t get out and vote. Fuck off with your toxic, divisive, condescending, counter-productive, Trump-helping bullshit.

Yes, we have to be careful to respect different voices in the party.

Now, to address another issue, I don’t think that Bernie is The One and Only Messiah or anything like that. I like Elizabeth Warren. I think she’s got a lot of good ideas, is well-intentioned, and would probably make a good president. If it turns out that she organically appears to garner the most support in the nomination, I have no problem with voting for her. I don’t have a cult-like devotion to Bernie. He’s certainly not perfect.

So why would I prefer Bernie?

I voted for Obama twice, gladly, and think that he was a good man and a pretty good president given the situation he was facing. But when he got in power, he thought that if he became part of the system, and didn’t rock the boat too much, he would be more successful. His presidency provided steady guidance in some rough times, restored America’s standing in the world, gave you a chance to feel proud of your government, but ultimately he was disappointing because he was not able to enact transformational change, especially on the issue of how the rich are accruing and wielding greater power, which is the greatest threat to our democracy and our country at this time.

I fear that Elizabeth Warren would also take the path of trying to become part of the system and gently guide it in the right direction. I don’t think such an approach is enough to get this country back on track. Almost all of our media is owned by a handful of corporations. They’re moving the Overton window as they choose, using near-Orwellian tactics, just with a lot more polish and subtlety, to control the overton window, our national discussion, and steer us away from an actual democracy into a managed democracy. Republicans are thumbing their nose at the very concept of accountability and rule of law. Shit is getting off the tracks, fast.

We need someone who can tell us how it is. Call out the real problems in this country. Even if he’s powerless because congress is deadset against him, I have no doubt that Sanders would use the bully pulpit to get America back on track about what the real battle is, and what’s going on with our country. Here’s a guy who was arrested for segregation, and far more ballsy, invited a gay pride rally to his town when he was mayor in 1986. Do you remember what gay rights were like in 1986, and how even relatively liberal members of society felt about that issue then? That is pure principle. There is nothing politically expedient about that. This is a guy that has a 50 year track record in public service that is completely sincere. He always speaks his mind and stands up for what he believes is right regardless of any political pressures on him. This is a guy who is the closest thing we have in our public sphere to being uncorruptable.

And we need that, right now. We need to take back control of the narrative from our corporate-owned media steering us around by the nose, telling us what the issues and problems of the day are. We need a president who will get in there and tell us what the real problems we face are, regardless of the political expediency or the cost. Because waking this country up to the fact that we’re most of the way down the path to neo-fuedalism is the only shot we have to face it and fight it.

Warren will do some good on that front. Bernie will knock it out of the park.

I think Pete would be pretty good too. Agree?

That’s a fair enough criticism. To be fair, I would not and do not say things like that to people who simply want to vote for a non-Bernie candidate. My rant is directed specifically at people who have a disdain for the actual progressive/leftist wing of the democratic party, who treat us like ignorant children for wanting a little bit of what makes every other rich country in the world happier than we are. I realize this seems like a subtle distinction, but the difference is that I wouldn’t see someone’s support for Buttigieg and come in and try to insult him, whereas on this board, indicating support for Bernie usually gets such a result.

But it’s true, I do think third way democrats have turned this country into a managed democracy. You get a choice between pro-rich, pro-status quo, pro-business, mostly sane democrats and pro-rich, pro-business, looney toons Republicans. There’s no option for “make the country better the average person” anymore. Third way democrats killed the actual leftist movement this country had 50 years ago. They’ve changed the issues we argue over from the quality of life for the average person to actively helping the rich get richer on the backs of everyone else while they keep us squabbling over identity politics and social issues.

It is strange to me how people can get passionate about that. What is there to passionately support in neoliberalism and third way democrats? So then, what do you think the motivation of people who support corporatist democrats is at trying to insult progressives/leftists?

U mad, Bernie Bro?

I’m leaning towards no. I think he’s a smart guy, and I think he’s “presidential” - I listen to him and I think “I wouldn’t be embarassed for this guy to be my president” - but his politics are sort of suspiciously generic and undefined. Given that he’s become a favorite of the DNC, I suspect they view him as a way to continue third way corporatist policies with more appeal to young people than Biden. I’ve not seen him speak or take policy positions that suggest that he’s significantly left of, say, a 1980s republican. To me, it seems like he’s the “well if we can’t convince young people to vote for Biden, maybe they’ll vote for Buttigieg”

But I see no evidence that he’ll be a transformative figure within the direction of the democratic party. I’m willing to be convinced otherwise.

Self-admitted Bernie supporters who vow to stay home if he doesn’t get the nomination are the ones with the problem.

Do you think telling them “aw, your messiah lost, you little piece of shit. I know you got your hopes up that someone different could get in there, but now it’s time to grow up and take your medicine and vote for a real shit sandwich. It was cute when you thought you had a choice or when you thought you could vote for someone you liked, but now it’s time for your dumb little bernie bro self to do what we tell you” is something that makes them more or less likely to vote for the democratic candidate? Because there were dozens of people like that in 2016 that I encountered, basically daring me not to vote for Hillary.

That’s how we got Trump & Pence!

Any Functioning Adult 2020!

So, it’s the non-Bernie-Bro Democrats who made the Bros not vote? And it’s their fault, not the non-voting Bros, that Trump won? I’m asking because holy smokes walls of text that I’ll be fucked to read, but the logic does intrigue me.

What do you get if you add thirty IQ points to the average trump supporter without changing their personality at all? The average Sanders supporter.

All of the people spamming dumb memes attacking other Democratic candidates seem to be Bernie supporters. It isn’t a good look.

Substantiate this.

Sanders supporters are xenophobic? Homophobic? Worship the rich? Believe a pathological liar? Support a guy who was insincere at every step in his life?

This is fucking stupid and makes no sense at all.

Bernie Bros and Trumpers obviously inhabit different political views. But their temperament is cut from the same cloth. The notion that their guy is a savior, almost beyond reproach, that things in America are radically wrong and need radical solutions, that there exists a widespread conspiracy from The Establishment to keep them and their guy down, that the rest of society just “can’t handle the truth,” and that you are either with them or against them.

Anyone whose fee fees are hurt so much that they say “Oh yeah, now I’ll let Trump win, that’ll show you” is obviously unreasonable to begin with, so yeah, I’m not gonna bother trying to reason with them.

Also, once you sprout discredited conspiracy theories and scream how things are rigged, you’re pretty much beyond reason.

Fuck Bernie.

I did not do that. I explicitly stated that I voted for Hillary. However, I said that your behavior was to try to goad me into basically not doing so.

Is politics really what you want to do gatekeeping about? “Oh, so you might not vote for our candidate just because we’re completely shitty and dismiss you? Well we don’t want your vote anyway!”

Well… Trump. Good work.

Explain this. Do you want more of those?

Iowa is looking good for Bernie or Buttigieg, not Biden.


Moderate Republican is a THING?

You know what also worked really well last time? Bernie Bros sneering at everyone else.

I see that’s happening again this time, too.