Democrats who don't support Bernie Sanders as the frontrunner are the people who put Trump in office

So I recently had something interesting occur. I said Bernie Sanders was the strongest person democrats could run for the 2020 election. I was met with a few responses that I didn’t expect. So I pushed them, why don’t you support bernie (wasn’t answer), then I asserted a few claims. Those claims weren’t met with much resistance, instead the person started talking about the AG being fired. After just trying to grasp my head around how Sessions being fired relates to Bernie Sander’s pushing the democratic party left and having universal healthcare in the national conversation. Needless to say, I was blocked on twitter by someone who doesn’t support bernie, yet is a democrat. Now I’ve dealt with this sort of thing before, but it really opens up a serious point that many people don’t get. The democratic party did it’s absolute best to silence Bernie and alongside corporate media to dismiss him. Amazingly, he managed to push the entire party left. He got things like universal healthcare to be apart of the conversation. Even Obama has recently went on proposing it, and even went as far as to make an argument for why we’ll need universal basic income. It’s amazing how far left a single candidate pushed the entire party.

But that’s not what many democrats care about. Many democrats are just as ignorant as Trump supporters. Emotional, irrational, and in many ways completely delusional. Beto just fucking lost to Ted fucking Cruz and people want him to run as president. People actually WANT hillary clinton to run again, It’s mind boggling, the most irritating thing I’ve ever had to hear in my life. We’re going to lose 2020 if the average democrat can’t get it through their thick skull that what they hear on CNN, MSNBC, or on the “morning joe” isn’t everything. The reason why people don’t support Bernie specifically these dems, is because they fell in line with corporate agenda that the media and party have projected. They dismissed and assaulted Bernie non-stop, now there are many dems still who are stuck in that 2016 mindset that Hillary is somehow the best option for the Party. They honestly believe Bernie Sanders costed Hillary the election, and not the other way around. And when pushed on the substance, they break down like trump supporters refusing to change position.

How do we fix this, what do we do. Or am I the delusional one for thinking Hillary and Beto are weak candidates that can’t hold a candle to Donald Trump’s campaigning. Trump would absolutely annihilate both of them. Any thoughts on this?

Dude. If Bernie wants to run for president as a Democrat, then he has to win the goddam primary. If he can’t do that because all the corporate shills and brainwashed elites won’t support him, then how the fuck is he supposed to win the general election?

To win an election, you need to win the election. Nobody needs to.fall in line and support the front runner until the primaries are decided. Once someone has a mathematical lock on the nomination, then it’s time to shut the fuck up and support the candidate, or go ahead and vote for Trump if you can’t do that.

Not before. There is no front runner. There is no anointed candidate. Anyone who wants to get the nomination is going to have to do it the regular way. If you don’t like that we can go back to picking the best candidate in the proverbial smoke filled room, and ordering the voters to get in line.

Or your candidate could win some primaries. Or maybe join the Democratic party.

Bernie had to run as democrat because in 2016 that was the best way to get across his message. If bernie ran as an independent it’d be harder to get that 15% or whatever it is, then it would be to transform the democratic party.

Instead of having to deal with the corporatist shills, how about using the power of the people to vote them out or force them on our side. That seems to be what bernie has done to some degree. The problem is low information voters, who only watch TV. They are victims of corporate agenda being pushed down their throats.

…nope.

The people who voted for Trump put Trump in office. The responsibility lies entirely with them.

Nope, this is completely false. If the democratic party decided to put a monkey as their front runner would it be the Republican voters faults for voting for their candidate and not the monkey?

The responsibility does not entirely lie on them, the responsibility of the other side is to put a decent candidate in. Let’s take that one lone dem that was literally supporting Trump’s policies shitting on his own base. He lost his election because he shat on his own base trying to appeal to the right. Is him losing the fault of the republican voters entirely? No, a big part of the reason why he lost is because he shat on his base his own voters. Same exact thing hillary did by downplaying Bernie and his base.

There’s a difference between cause and responsibility. The cause of a given person being elected can be traced back to every single person on the planet - those who voted for him and those who voted against them equally contributed to numbers that failed to prevent his election; those who didn’t vote at all failed to vote against him, and those who couldn’t vote failed to murder him. The actual cause of Trump’s election is that the universe neglected to put a meteor through his skull on his third birthday.

But if we’re going to talk responsibility, rather than cause, then the responsibility lies entirely on those who propelled him forward, not just the people and meteors who failed to impede him. And the only people who propelled him forward are those who voted for him. It is, indeed, their fault.

ETA: Well, them and the russians and whoever else who propelled the people who propelled him. Responsibility can be traced back through multiple levels of causality.

I never disagreed with it not being their fault, I’m specifically disagreeing it’s entirely their fault. A large portion of the blame is on the dems for not providing a strong candidate to run against him. If you intentionally put someone against him who’s weak, then that’s also your fault for putting someone weak against him.

Let me put it this way, if you put your child in a fight against a grown man, is it the child’s fault for getting his ass beat by a grown man? OR is it your fault for throwing your child in a fight against a grown man?

Bernie did not have a chance to win in 2016, he doesn’t have a chance in 2018, he won’t have a chance in 2020. He can win in Vermont but that doesn’t translate to the country as a whole.

There is no massive progressive wing that has been panting to take over the party on the national level. There is no wave of young socialists who would vote if Sanders were a candidate. There is no possibility that Sanders would bring back the African-American votes that went missing is 2016.

Enough with Sanders. Look to the future. That means nobody over 70.

…“false” that the people who voted for Trump are responsible for putting Trump in office? How on earth did you come up with that conclusion?

The democratic party didn’t put up a monkey as their frontrunner. At the last election they put up the person who comprehensively defeated Bernie Sanders.

And they did.

Who the fuck are you talking about?

You’ve changed your argument now. So be specific: after she won the primary when exactly did Hillary “downplay” either Bernie or his base?

Um… Bernie Sanders won 67 to 27, not sure how winning his reelection indicates he doesn’t have a chance in his own election he already won.
How wont he stand a chance in 2020? He’s the most popular politician in the country right now.


I’m willing to bet money Sanders will win in 2020 on his policy positions alone. I’m also willing to bet other dems like Corey Booker will run on his policies as well.

Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump. They didn’t put in a strong candidate, they put in the worst possible one. I guess you’re living in a bubble because majority of Americans dont like Hillary clinton, shes less favorable than Bernie, and she didn’t run on anything new or progressive, she ran entirely on the statues quo with a handful of positions that would be beneficial to people. She was in favor of NAFTA, she attacked her voters, and she came across generally as an elitist establishment shill which is why there were so many “bernie or bust” people that refused to vote for her. It may be your opinion Hillary is a strong candidate, but the facts do not lie. Appealing to the right doesn’t work, thats why she flipflopped on gay marriage and started attempting to lean towards leftists. Now if you can, please provide me with a list of reasons why Hillary is a strong candidate, because based on what actually happen she lost because of who she is and her positions.

Hillary wasn’t in favor of universal healthcare, she didn’t want to bail students out, she didn’t want to improve NAFTA for Americans, she and the media constantly dismissed bernies positions and policies, and look what happen. SHE LOST, and now the dem elitists even Barack Obama have advocated for Bernie’s positions in 2016.
Edit: As for beating bernie sanders comprehensively, I guess giving Hillary debate questions before the debate, having mainstream media constantly dismiss bernie as a socialist, old crazy lunatic who’s policies are unrealistic and wont work, all of that is just comprehensively beating him right? LEt’s get one thing straight, Bernie would have won if the democratic party it’s self wanted him. they did not, why? Because their corporatist, bernie was a threat towards their agenda to stay in power and keep the status quo. Now you can sit here and attempt to claim Hillary was a strong powerful candidate who beat Bernie fair and square, but guess what, she lost to donald trump buddy. A vote for hillary is equal to a vote for trump.

She got more votes than he did in the primary. I’ve yet to see a compelling reason it would have gone differently in the general. Especially since there really wasn’t much mud slung at him, relative to what could have (and would have) happened in the general.

Policy.

I have two problems with your position, Barack Obama.

1: I don’t think Hillary lost because of her policy positions. I think Hillary lost because of a massive slanderous misinformation campaign leveled against her, which drove people away from voting for her. In my opinion the policy reasons you claim she was unpopular had literally nothing to do with it. It was entirely due to the disinformation campaign. (Well, them and Bernie supporters who ignored Bernie and made ‘protest votes’.)

Had Bernie ended up as the candidate, he would have gotten his own slanderous misinformation campaign calibrated to destroy him. I have no doubt his policy positions, that you love, would have been used against him.
2) Bernie’s too old to be president now anyway, in my opinion.

…Bernie lost to Hillary.

Thats a matter of opinion, not a matter of fact.

Yet despite all of your assertions: she still managed to whip Bernie’s ass.

And she won the primary. And Bernie lost.

Yep. Bernie lost.

How about you answer my question “After she won the primary when exactly did Hillary “downplay” either Bernie or his base?” first?

Look what happened? She beat Bernie.

SHE WON against Bernie.

Aren’t you Barack Obama? And what is a “dem elitist?”

Conspiracy theory. And I’m not your buddy.

A vote for Trump is equal to a vote for Trump. A vote for Hillary is (surprise!!!) a vote for Hillary.

If Clinton had drawn the same African-American support in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin as Obama had she would have won all three. Would Sanders have done better? Impossible to imagine. During the primaries he drew almost zero black support.

From any rational perspective, the best Democratic strategy would be to run an African-American. Getting that vote up is the difference between winning and losing.

Why are you fighting the last war? Forget about 2016. Look for a fresh face in 2020.

What’s the point of electing someone who has zero chance of getting his program through Congress? Obama couldn’t even get a public option for the ACA, and that was with a Democratic Congress. Bernie would be a lame duck before he’s sworn in. And 79 years old on election day? No thanks.

As for 2016, why was the DNC supposed to support a candidate who never joined the party, and still hasn’t?

Hillary lost to Donald Trump because she was a poor candidate. If you honestly believe Bernie would have done worse then there is a fundamental disagreement here.

Do you understand the democratic party didn’t want Bernie Sanders as their lead. However many people especially after the fact, supported Bernie. He didn’t lose to hillary clinton, he lost to the establishment. When you have the entire democratic party behind you and mainstream media, of course you’re going to probably lose.

I’m making a point, running Hillary in 2020 or Beto for example is STUPID. Bernie didn’t have as strong of a base as he clearly appears to have now because of the establishment and corporate media shitting on him relentlessly. At least with other candidates they actually heard their policies out and didn’t dismiss them on face value.

Running an African American, a latino american, isn’t going to be any more effective than running Sanders. Instead of hoping for someones image to win the election how about we hope their substance does. Wanna know why Trump won? Not because he looks orange, it was because of the things he said.

Did you pay attention to the results yesterday? We have plenty of progressive minded dems in office now. Next go around we will have more. Eventually universal healthcare will become a thing in america like it has in every other developed country.