Anyone care to make the argument that he would have?
Depends on how many Bernie supporters went Trump/third party. Hillary supporters insisted they didn’t need Bernie support in the general, so maybe they listened.
of course he would have. These two candidates deserved each other. Both of them had such high negatives that any other candidate could have won the election. If you look back at the primaries the only candidate who was likely to lose to Clinton was Trump.
I don’t think Bernie would have. If Biden had run, he probably would have owned the country, though. I have to assume that the Clintons pulled some strings to convince him not to do it (even taking into account the death of his son).
Bernie has a likability that Clinton has never had. Yes, they would’ve drug him through the mud - but other than some shit he might’ve said 30 years ago about how socialism isn’t the worst thing ever there’s not much mud to throw at him. He doesn’t have scandals or baggage or anyone who owns him. He’s as clean and true to himself as a politician can be.
I think Clinton, for about 70% undeserved and 30% deserved reasons is one of the most hated people in the country. Not by percentage of people who hate her, but of the significant minority that hate her, they REALLY hate her.
I think a generic democrat - uninspiring, unimpressive, and and boring - would’ve won this election easily. So is Bernie worse than a generic democrat? No, I don’t think so. He would’ve taken away some of Trump’s corruption narrative, and his anti-establishment narrative. Bernie’s the least corrupt federal politician there is, and he’s an outsider - he wasn’t even part of the party system until this run.
So yes, I think Bernie would’ve won. I think the democrats rigged their primary system against him to make sure Clinton happened. I also think the democrats discouraged other viable candidates from running in order to make Clinton happen. And their absolute determination to make Clinton happen above all else is basically the only thing they could’ve done as a party to hand the election to Trump.
I don’t think Biden would’ve won; exit polls showed a plurality of voters wanted more conservatism. Also, like Hillary, Biden also lacks the race factor in driving black turnout and blacks voting Democratic.
I think Bernie would’ve lost badly; Trump would’ve ran over him with insults and he wouldn’t have even fought back, like Hillary did.
Some possible theories:
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There’s a large amount of people who wouldn’t vote for Clinton due to her gender or perceived personal foibles that would’ve voted for Sanders (despite his socialist ideology)
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Trump really benefited from tapping into the underdog current, and a lot of people who wouldn’t normally vote, especially in the Great Lakes Rust Belt (because they feel like the DC power brokers don’t represent them regardless of political affiliation) turned out to vote for Trump. Those people might’ve also turned out for Sanders, or been happy either way with two underdogs and not Clinton.
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While the Sanders supporters voted for Clinton, they didn’t have the same energy to support her in other ways like going house to house, helping get people signed up to vote, etc. Had Sanders run, the Democratic side would’ve been more energized in general (and not taking the election for granted).
Not saying any of these are true, just spitballing some possibilities. Could be some of all of the above.
Not a Bernie Bro, but I think he would have done much better, at least made fewer missteps.
Biden is like Jeb, pretty good on paper, at least initially, but ? when push comes to shove.
drewder, that was true back then yes. But then this morning 538 et al were giving Clinton a 70%+ chance.
Of course Bernie would have won. Reasons:
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Almost any Democrat would have beaten Trump. We kept telling you during the primaries that nominating a candidate who most Americans actively dislike might not be a good idea, but you wouldn’t listen.
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Trump won by flipping the Rust Belt states, where Bernie won most of the primaries.
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Anti-establishment sentiment was clearly a major factor in this election, and Bernie could have tapped into that in a way Clinton never could.
I doubt Trump woulda let his 25+ years in Washington go, and he could’ve hit him on Obamacare as well, pork barrel spending, deficit, debt, etc.
Believe it or not, a lot of them did. The days after Bernie conceded, the Reddit sub “TheDonald” got a ton of new subscribers from the so-called “AfterBerners”.
Bernie’s fanbase was big and it was fervent, enough to match the fervency of Trump’s many supporters. Hillary was fucking milquetoast. Almost nobody actually likes Hillary, but simply shrugged and said “Eh, at least she’s not as bad as Trump.” That was the death of this election.
All of this. Bernie had it in the fucking bag. I’m so much more incensed at the idiotic Dems who thought Hillary was a fine choice for president, and even a necessary choice, because vagina.
NOBODY actually LIKES Hillary. A lot of people fucking loved Bernie, even more than Trump’s supporters love him (and yes, they do). Do you guys get that now??
If nobody liked Hillary, why’d she win the primaries? Or do you think there was actual fraudulent vote manipulation, or that if the DNC had just been neutral, Bernie would’ve overcome the gap?
Because people bought into the rhetoric that she was “inevitable” and Bernie was “too radical” to win the general. And there probably was some actual shadiness behind the scenes (superdelegates?), but I don’t care to debate that because it’s moot at this point.
No, obviously a great many people do like and admire Hillary Clinton, and there are good reasons to do so. Unfortunately, these people couldn’t accept that most people disagree with them, and so here we are.
Yes, it’s quite clear that the party machinery worked in favor of Clinton and against Bernie. We have the very e-mails where they basically talk about how they’re going to stop Bernie from stealing the nomination.
Furthermore, the Republicans ran 19 candidates. The democrats ran 3. Is their talent cupboard so bare that they can’t come up with 3 people (one of which isn’t really part of the party) to run for president?
No, clearly there would’ve been people who could’ve made a run who stayed out because they knew it was Clinton’s year to be coronated.
The media was also complicit. NPR, often declared to be too liberal, basically ignored Bernie or occasionally mentioned him as someone who was inconveniencing the inevitable Clinton victory. CNN has been called the Clinton News Network for decades. Even something simple like counting superdelegate counts in delegate totals was deceptive. If, say, they were reporting on a primary with 20% of the vote in, which Bernie was winning by 10%, they might list all the superdelegates in that state as part of Clinton’s total, against Bernie’s return from that 20% of the vote, and give the impression that Bernie was massively losing the primary even though he was winning.
Sorry, no. Hillary is awesome and a perfect representative of what many college-educated women have experienced throughout their lives. No matter how competent you are, any ambition is mocked and feared, any mistakes are magnified, and macho jerks use their old-boys network to sideline you. Male privilege is as strong as ever, and now blames the woman for letting herself get taken advantage of.
I’m a Republican who eagerly voted for Hillary because I see through all the shit people throw at her. Bernie would’ve never had my vote, because he was pulling the same crap all the other old boys do.
Bernie’s fervent, massive base was going to carry him to win the general when it couldn’t even win primaries* and only got about a quarter of the African-American vote.
Sure.
*I’m not even talking about the nomination, which of course he lost. He especially sucked at the contests where people actually had to vote. There were 41 primaries and he lost 30.
I’m not saying he definitely would have lost. Maybe he really was better at talking to white people. But if he’d have won it wouldn’t have been because of his rabid supporters, who choked at nearly every turn when they actually had to attract voters.
How DARE you forget Lincoln Chafee!
Didn’t win primaries that his own party conspired to make sure he didn’t win? Sure.
Why does what percentage of the black vote he got in the primary matter? Once he was the democratic nominee he would get 85%+ of the black vote in the general.