How does deportation work?

Factual Questions
21

[QUOTE=Martini Enfield]
… their assumptions were that she was either A) Intending to work in the US, B) Had an American boyfriend that she was visiting, or C) Was running drugs (She wasn’t doing any of those, incidentally).
[/QUOTE]

I’m rather sympathetic to Immigration and Customs myself. You have to admit, drug runners DO make repeated trips into the US.

I knew an American lady in Thailand 20 years ago. An older lady, her adult son came to visit her. They returned to the US together for her daughter’s wedding, after which she returned to Thailand. But then a few months later, she moved back to the US, and her son having enjoyed his time in Thailand so much, came back here to help her move. So they returned to the US together again, just a few months after the first time. Naturally, they got taken off for an interview. I heard they were both highly indignant about the entire episode, but I mean C’mon On! Traveling back and forth between Thailand of all places and the US is naturally going to warrant some scrutiny.

22

[QUOTE=Siam Sam]
I’m rather sympathetic to Immigration and Customs myself. You have to admit, drug runners DO make repeated trips into the US.

I knew an American lady in Thailand 20 years ago. An older lady, her adult son came to visit her. They returned to the US together for her daughter’s wedding, after which she returned to Thailand. But then a few months later, she moved back to the US, and her son having enjoyed his time in Thailand so much, came back here to help her move. So they returned to the US together again, just a few months after the first time. Naturally, they got taken off for an interview. I heard they were both highly indignant about the entire episode, but I mean C’mon On! Traveling back and forth between Thailand of all places and the US is naturally going to warrant some scrutiny.
[/QUOTE]

I’m sympathetic too, in principle, but they don’t make it easy for us. I’ve been quizzed, questioned, and falsely accused of drug-smuggling (at the US PFI in Vancouver, BC - I was not, of course, smuggling drugs, something they later acknowledged). Judicial oversight of their actions is limited, since most of the people they harass have not been formally admitted to the USA (or UK, or France, or…)

Countries must protect their borders, of course. But if a non-citizen gets the wrong CBP officer in the US, they could well be treated as little better than a common criminal. True also in the UK and, I presume, other nations. Police officers have wide powers, but are publicly accountable for their actions. That isn’t always true of Customs and Immigration officers.

23

A friend of mine was denied entry into Canada (from the US) due to a decades old marijuana conviction. It wound up being embarrassing to the Canadian government, as he was traveling to Canada to receive an award sponsored/recognized by the Canadian government.

24

[QUOTE=PaulParkhead]

My wife was refused admission to the UK (she is a US citizen, I am British). They “paroled” her into the UK for six days

[/QUOTE]

Good god, normally U.S. citizens don’t even need visas to visit the UK or Western Europe.

On the other hand, was your wife in the process of immigrating to the U.K.? I know we do have some freaky rules for pending immigrants in the U.S.; depending on where you are in the long, drawn-out process of achieving legal permanent residency, you’re not allowed to leave the U.S. Presumably if you do, at that point, you might not be allowed back in on your return.

“You want to live in our country? Have it your way then. Stay!” :smiley:

25

[QUOTE=vetbridge]
A friend of mine was denied entry into Canada (from the US) due to a decades old marijuana conviction. It wound up being embarrassing to the Canadian government, as he was traveling to Canada to receive an award sponsored/recognized by the Canadian government.
[/QUOTE]

I understand there have been controversies within AA and similar addiction recovery organizations when they planned conventions or conferences in Canada. Many recovering alcoholics have DUI convictions, and hence are sometimes refused entry into the country.

Not that I’m pointing fingers, I know we’ve done the same sort of thing in the U.S. We’ve got 10 times the population down here, so we’ve got 10 times the stupid!

26

[QUOTE=PaulParkhead]

Countries must protect their borders, of course. But if a non-citizen gets the wrong CBP officer in the US, they could well be treated as little better than a common criminal.
[/QUOTE]

Heck, even a citizen can be made to feel like the subject of an interrogation. I think the American border guards up north have a lot more time on their hands, since they have so much less traffic to contend with, compared to their southern colleagues at San Ysidro.

Returning to the U.S. by car, at San Ysidro.

Agent: Citizens of what country.
Us: United States [handing over our passports].
Agent. [looking at passports and handing them back] Thank you, please proceed.

Returning by train, at Bellingham, WA.

[Agents board, and look around the whole coach, as if they’re trying to identify smugglers or terrorists by facial structure]

We hand over our passports. They look at them.

Agent: How long were you in Canada?
Me: Two days.
Agent: Why did you go to Canada? [I was taking aback by this. It’s like being quizzed by a parent or schoolteacher. ]
Me: We took a cruise from Los Angeles and it landed in Vancouver, BC.
Agent: [Looks at the passports, then at us] Thank you for your cooperation [handing back the passport].

In all, they held the train at least an hour, which is why the 120-odd mile journey from Vancouver BC to Seattle takes nearly four hours.

I wonder if those who travel by train are automatically suspect because so few people do it?

27

[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus]
Good god, normally U.S. citizens don’t even need visas to visit the UK or Western Europe.

On the other hand, was your wife in the process of immigrating to the U.K.? I know we do have some freaky rules for pending immigrants in the U.S.; depending on where you are in the long, drawn-out process of achieving legal permanent residency, you’re not allowed to leave the U.S. Presumably if you do, at that point, you might not be allowed back in on your return.

“You want to live in our country? Have it your way then. Stay!” :smiley:
[/QUOTE]

Well, the problem is that for visa-free admission to the UK, a person must be able to prove that they have no immigrant intent - that they’re entering as a tourist, family/friend visitor or certain business purposes like attending conferences or meetings. So the UK immigration staff suspected that my wife did have immigrant intent and so should have had a visa. Similar rules apply to Brits or other West Europeans entering the USA.

What you say about applying for permanent residency in the US is more or less correct. It’s possible, for an extra fee, to apply for advanced parole to travel while the application is being processed, but if you don’t do so and then leave the US, you will be considered to have abandoned your application. So you would be denied entry. In effect, you’ll be treated as an intending immigrant with no visa and sent away.

28

[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus]
I understand there have been controversies within AA and similar addiction recovery organizations when they planned conventions or conferences in Canada. Many recovering alcoholics have DUI convictions, and hence are sometimes refused entry into the country.

Not that I’m pointing fingers, I know we’ve done the same sort of thing in the U.S. We’ve got 10 times the population down here, so we’ve got 10 times the stupid!
[/QUOTE]

Yes - I know Canada doesn’t allow admission for folks with DUI convictions. I suppose their reasoning is sound: their lower drinking age in many provinces led to US citizens who lived in the border area and who were aged 18-20 to cross into Canada, get blitzed and then try to drive home. I think the Canadian attitude was that they’d strongly prefer it if the US kept its drunk drivers to itself.

29

[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus]
Heck, even a citizen can be made to feel like the subject of an interrogation. I think the American border guards up north have a lot more time on their hands, since they have so much less traffic to contend with, compared to their southern colleagues at San Ysidro.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, as I’ve reported elsewhere on this Board, my one and only bad experience with US Immigration was when my father died. I had flown back to the US a few months before when he had his aneurysm, then returned to Thailand once he had stabilized. Then flying back again to the US five months later when he died, an Immigration official at LAX tagged me aside and asked what was up with the multiple trips, but as soon as she learned the story I was sent on my way. Still, she could not resist a snarky “Why don’t you want to live in America?” comment. Other than that, all of the US Immigration officials I’ve ever dealt with have been courteous. The wife has never been treated badly or suspiciously on any trip to the US, whether she was on her own or with me.

30

[QUOTE=unspun]
So let’s say you arrive in a country and find out that for whatever reason, your visa is no good or the officials just plain aren’t interested in letting you in. What happens? Do they keep you at the airport until the next flight to your home country? Do they ship you? Who foots the bill? When you get back to your own country will anyone care that you were deported from somewhere? (I mean would it go on any kind of local record?)
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A friend of mine had this exact thing happen - was visiting Brazil, didn’t know she needed to get a visa beforehand, so was sent on the next plane back to Miami. There, she was able to obtain a visa, and flew back. IIRC, the airline covered the cost; she was given to understand that they should have verified her visa status before letting her on the plane in the US.

31

[QUOTE=PaulParkhead]
Yes - I know Canada doesn’t allow admission for folks with DUI convictions. I suppose their reasoning is sound: their lower drinking age in many provinces led to US citizens who lived in the border area and who were aged 18-20 to cross into Canada, get blitzed and then try to drive home. I think the Canadian attitude was that they’d strongly prefer it if the US kept its drunk drivers to itself.
[/QUOTE]

Is there any sort of “time out” for that sort of thing? I mean, if someone does something stupid at age 20, but wants to come for a visit 25 years later, do they weigh the offense against how long ago it occurred?

32

[QUOTE=Mama Zappa]
Is there any sort of “time out” for that sort of thing? I mean, if someone does something stupid at age 20, but wants to come for a visit 25 years later, do they weigh the offense against how long ago it occurred?
[/QUOTE]

That I can’t answer, I’m afraid - I know very little about Canadian immigration laws since my wife is from the USA and I am from the UK. I’ve only ever made a couple of short trips to Canada. My WAG is “maybe, sometimes”, but that’s based on what I know of US law, and of course Canada could be different. A one-off DUI 25 years ago may be treated more leniently, but I just don’t know.

In the US, at least, it is possible in some cases for inadmissibility to be waived. That’s most common in family immigration cases, such as spouses, parents, minor children and so on. The US citizen needs to demonstrate that the denial of the visa to their loved one will cause said US citizen significant hardship. That’s the point in the visa process where it’s time to get a lawyer*.

Running a google for “Immigration Canada” may provide some useful information, that’s the agency that manages Canada’s borders.

33

Edit missed - the asterisk I put in that post should have had a comment attached, along the lines that if anyone in the US feels the need to hire an immigration lawyer, he or she should be a member of the AILA

It’s just a standard disclaimer - I’ll do my best with immigration questions that are asked out of basic academic interest, but IANAL and if there’s any doubt and it’s personally important to someone, a lawyer with experience in the area is certainly the best way to proceed.

34

[QUOTE=Mama Zappa]
Is there any sort of “time out” for that sort of thing? I mean, if someone does something stupid at age 20, but wants to come for a visit 25 years later, do they weigh the offense against how long ago it occurred?
[/QUOTE]
This information from Citizenship and Immigration Canada’s page on Visiting Canada: Overcoming criminal inadmissibility— Frequently asked questions may help answer your question:

35

[QUOTE=tetranz]
When entering the US on a visa waiver, there are various things that can cause your entry to be blocked.
[/QUOTE]

My cousin (we’re from Spain) got refused entry from a casino ship on grounds of being “an attractive, single female.” The dozen friends she was travelling with were able to contact the consulate and get her freed before she’d been put in a plane to Spain, but understandably she says she’s not likely to set foot in the USA again.

She’d been able to enter on the waiver program for the first time just three days before, just got declared unacceptable after they’d gotten bored with Miami and taken that ship into international waters. Apparently she was more to the taste of the second border guard than of the first.

On an overland trip from the USA to Mexico, I had serious problems getting my passport properly checked and my paperwork done. Entering Mexico, there were no guards at the border; returning to the USA, the border guard took a look at me and wouldn’t even look at my passport (hello, it’s a different color): “you’re American, just go in.” “I’m from Spain, I need you to stamp my passport.” “No you’re not, you’re American!”
Don’t most people know what country they’re from, or at least have a vague idea? I blocked the line for several eternal minutes because apparently I was too white to be from my own country, but if I’d just grabbed the passport and gone, I could have gotten deported for illegal entry :frowning:

36

[QUOTE=Nava]

She’d been able to enter on the waiver program for the first time just three days before, just got declared unacceptable after they’d gotten bored with Miami and taken that ship into international waters. Apparently she was more to the taste of the second border guard than of the first.

On an overland trip from the USA to Mexico, I had serious problems getting my passport properly checked and my paperwork done. Entering Mexico, there were no guards at the border; returning to the USA, the border guard took a look at me and wouldn’t even look at my passport (hello, it’s a different color): “you’re American, just go in.” “I’m from Spain, I need you to stamp my passport.” “No you’re not, you’re American!”
Don’t most people know what country they’re from, or at least have a vague idea? I blocked the line for several eternal minutes because apparently I was too white to be from my own country, but if I’d just grabbed the passport and gone, I could have gotten deported for illegal entry :frowning:
[/QUOTE]

I don’t doubt you, but both anecdotes seem kind of odd to me. I took my foreign-born wife and her parents on a trip that involved both a casino ship and an overland trip to Mexico. We didn’t go through any kind of immigration control coming back from the casino boat tour. Coming back from Mexico, I don’t think the border guard stamped passports of wife or inlaws–but even if he didn’t, what difference would it make? There were no exit stamps either (as you say, no border guards at all going into Mexico), so how would anyone know that they (or you) had ever left in the first place?

37

[QUOTE=Koxinga]
I don’t doubt you, but both anecdotes seem kind of odd to me. I took my foreign-born wife and her parents on a trip that involved both a casino ship and an overland trip to Mexico. We didn’t go through any kind of immigration control coming back from the casino boat tour. Coming back from Mexico, I don’t think the border guard stamped passports of wife or inlaws–but even if he didn’t, what difference would it make? There were no exit stamps either (as you say, no border guards at all going into Mexico), so how would anyone know that they (or you) had ever left in the first place?
[/QUOTE]

I don’t mean to doubt either, because I’ve heard a lot of other stories along the same lines. But these things never ever seem to happen to me or my Thai wife, before or after 9/11. And she’s even travelled to and from the US on her own (although admittedly not as a tourist; she was attending a summer workshop at the U of Michigan). Just the one small snarky incident for me listed above. :confused:

38

Well, if you’re a non-citizen, and don’t have a greencard, it’s important to have your departure and entry dates recorded. Well, at least if you ever might come back to the US. Normally that’s done using the I94/I94W form, perhaps there are other means. But it does mean that you can demonstrate past compliance with US immigration law. So non-citizens who enter or leave the US generally do care about having these things put on their record, assuming that they are indeed complying with the law.

Who’d know that you ever left? Probably no-one. It likely won’t matter. But from my POV, I’d hate to be arrested for some minor offence and have to explain why I didn’t comply with US law regarding my recent entries or departures. Hell, even if I was an innocent witness to a road accident, I wouldn’t be so sure the police wouldn’t check me out with the USCIS.

The best idea, if a non-citizen crosses a border (Canadian or Mexican) into the US, is to insist that they stamp you in. If they won’t, keep your travel documents - airline boarding cards, ship passes, whatever. Even if you crossed by car, keep anything you can find.