God didn’t make it “appear” mature to somehow trick us, He created all things including mankind at a certain level of maturity or completeness for His own purposes. Then He revealed to us what He had done
I’m just saying science is limited to examining only natural processes that have occurred since the creation and has no capability of examining a supernatural event in which things that now take centuries to come to maturity, were completed in one day by God by His sovereign will
No question that being God, He could do it any way He wants. But not even us fallen human beings would have in mind to own a new Cadillac and start out by first getting a Toyota and then start changing all the parts out until we have a Cad in our driveway. No one thinks like that and neither does God. He made the final product just the way He wanted it.
Eve was created as a part of God’s original creation as a final touch. God has responded to man’s sin in different ways: judging them with a flood, confusing their language so they could not continue to build a false city that He would have to destroy, choosing a people and making a Covenant with them, providing a Messiah, etc. God doesn’t change, His purpose has always been the restoration of man’s relationship to Him and He can’t be faulted for trying every means to do so.
Lawlessness will increase and the physical catastrophes will increase in intensity and frequency (social unrest, earthquakes, hurricanes, etc) right up to the end. Noah’s flood started with some raindrops and ended up with a deluge. The increasing intensity of current events is a certain sign of the end of the kingdoms of this world and Christ coming with His kingdom.
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Or a hog, for that matter?
So what? All those things were prevalent in the first and second centuries, as well. After the calm and prosperity of the last years of Caesar Augustus, everything went downhill. Vesuvius? 79 C.E. During the reign of Marcus Aurelius they suffered a plague that swept over the entire empire along with two empire-threatening wars and a lot of social unrest due to the taxes levied to support those wars. We have already suffered the bubonic plague (that wiped out 1/3 of Europe and much of Asia and some unknown portion of Africa) and the influenza pandemic of 1918-1919. Every age has disasters and lawlessness; to the people living, every age appears to be worse than any preceding. It is not so and your claim is merely cherrypicking to support your beliefs. The New Orleans flood is nothing compared to the Mississippi flood of 1927. There have been floods in China that killed millions of people. The reason that some preachers get to pretend that things are worse now is that modern communications lets the whole world know about events that used to be mere rumors (or unknown) to other parts of the world.
…Except, apparently, Niagara falls, and the ocean sediments, and the dust on the moon and… wait a minute! you can’t switch back and forth between ‘the Earth looks old because God made it look old’ and “there’s loads of evidence of a young Earth”; the two concepts are contradictory.
Well, yes, science is also incapable of measuring the shoe size of leprechauns; scientists have long since decided to stopped acting surprised about this though.
A different time period from what?
The Sun is not created until Day 4 – how is time measured before then?
It’s clear from the Bible itself that the “days” were never meant to be literal Earth days.
If God taking billions of years to do something is considered incompetency, then why stop at a day? After all, I could claim that God is incompetent because he didn’t get the whole thing done in an hour! Or a second!
Where in the Bible does it say that God could not have taken more than a literal day?
What makes you think time matters to God at all? Doesn’t 2 Peter 3:8 suggest that God has a much different conception of time than we have?
The problem with this argument, as well as just about any creationist argument that goes along the line of “the rate of something today extrapolated back 4.5 billion years ago gives an absurd answer, therefore the Earth cannot be that old” is that rates cannot be extrapolated back that far. It is the same as saying, “the stock market can’t be more than 100 days old, because it rose 35.67 points today and now is at 3,567.”
Even if we could tell that the rings of Saturn are moving apart at one inch per year (which I’m not convinced we can even tell!), there’s no reason to believe that they’ve been moving apart at the exact same rate for the past 4.5 billion years.
This holds for other creationist bad arguments, such as “salt is flowing into the seas at X rate, therefore the oceans cannot be more than Y years old” or “moon dust accumulates at X rate, therefore the moon cannot be more than Y years old” or “the magnetic field of the Earth is decaying at X rate, therefore the Earth cannot be more than Y years old.”
Then explain the atrocious level of science among young-earth creationists. Why is it that young earth creationists cannot get their findings published in scientific journals? Why is it that there is a complete dearth of young-earth creationists among tenured faculty at well-accredited universities? Why is it that young-earth creationists frequently refer to some grand conspiracy among the atheist scientists to keep the truth from coming out?
The general sciences are in clear opposition to the teachings of young earth creationists.
The general sciences, however, are NOT in opposition to the Bible. It is the young earth creationists who are on the wrong side, not science.
Cross-referenced geneologies in the Bible (for example, Matthew 1:11 and 1 Chronicles 3:15-16) show that geneologies often skipped generations - that is, that “A begat B” means only that B was some descendant, not necessarily the son, of A.
I suppose I should add that all the Bible passages say the thing in the King James Version. I have a suspicion that you will be of the belief that the KJV is the only inspired version. :rolleyes:
The version (and language, should you want to know what 2 Peter 3:8 says in Croatian) of the passages can be changed by using the pull-down menu at the top of the page.
Sorry for the triple post.
So, you know what God thinks?
So, you know better than Jesus who stated he didn’t know the day?
He didn’t have the internet.
Yes He did.
He wanted a universe that would start with very simple forms of life and evolve over time into new and interesting forms of life.
And he knew it would take a minimum of 4.5 billion years.
It looks like Dorothy clicked her heels and went home, probably a little insulted by some 4 letter words by those of you who are losing the argument. Maybe you weren’t aware but most of those DAR’s are in their 80’s and 90’s and don’t relate well to your limited vocabularies.
But to try and answer your question, which I’m sure Dorothy could answer better: Yes, both old and new things can exist simultaneously! You can prove this yourself or use one of your science friends to help you. Examples: Adult and baby human beings coexist even though they came into existence at different times! The same principle holds true for starlight, the old exists with the new. And using the Biblical account, the same day God created complete organisms and plants and even geological structures, He also put in place processes for them to replenish. Wait, I’m thinking of a 3 letter word. DUH!
Interesting theory but not very original, some guy named Darby or Darwin or something came up with it a long time ago and was never able to prove it with one shred of scientific evidence. After all these years all his devoted followers are able to do is continue to put baseless and unproven theories on the table and wave bigger and bigger numbers in front of us. I have to grant them that they do have tremendous faith and are following the largest non-theistic religion on the planet. Unfortunately it’s blind faith, and it leads to a Godless eternity.
So do I. He makes Himself perfectly clear in what He has spoken to us in the Scriptures
The scriptures do not give a specific day but they do give us the signs of the last days. A sampling of applicable verses:
“Even so, when you see these things taking place, understand and know that the kingdom of God is at hand”
“Truly, I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place”
“Now when these things begin to occur, look up and lift up your heads because your redemption is drawing near”
“But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to overtake you by surprise like a thief. For you are all sons of light and sons of the day; we do not belong either to the night or to darkness.”
Of course these verses were spoken to believers\disciples and do not apply to those who reject the Scriptures. Everyone who fits into that category, just go back to sleep. I’ll try to be real quiet so you aren’t disturbed.
Some believe the days are not literal and refer to large, undetermined periods of time, this allows for evolution to fit into the Genesis creation account.
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The Sun is not created until Day 4 – how is time measured before then?
24hours of earth rotation equals one day. That remains the same even if the sun and moon vanish.
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All the days in the Genisis account are defined as consisting of an evening and a morning, no more and no less.
He probably could have done it all instantly, why don’t you ask Him why He didn’t?
I believe the incompetency comment was referring to the Darwinian theory premise that everything is constantly improving and getting better with time: to then place God in that process, who announced that everything created was “good” from the start, would be inconsistent with an omnipotent God. )
Obviously, being God, He could have, but Genesis says He didn’t ie, days are defined as consisting of an evening and morning. Also Exodus20:11 states “For in six days the Lord made heavens and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.”
What makes you think time matters to God at all? Doesn’t 2 Peter 3:8 suggest that God has a much different conception of time than we have?
Time was created for us, God is outside of time ( “I am He Who inhabits eternity”)
Why He took certain amounts of time in the creation process is not really explained in the Scriptures.
The amazing thing to me is that the evolutionary theory takes the observable and proveable adaptation capability of living organisms and then theorizes that it’s not just a basic God-given defense mechanism but is a small part of an ongoing creation process which also involves leaps from species to species. Considering the massive assumptions of time involved in such a process with absolutely no living proof or fossil record proof, it’s inappropriate to fault the Young earthers for simply pointing out some current observable processes to support their own beliefs, something Darwinists have never been able to do.
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There is an established Evolution based monolith in the scientific community that is very daunting to anyone with a different viewpoint. Job security doesn’t always come with standing up for the Truth and explains why only a few Young Earthers are seen on the science landscape. Intelligent Designers are more in number because they compromise with Evolution and allow the possibility of large time periods instead of literal days in Genesis. Moral: The greater amount of Truth that is proclaimed, the greater amount of opposition is encounterd.
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Cross-referenced geneologies in the Bible (for example, Matthew 1:11 and 1 Chronicles 3:15-16) show that geneologies often skipped generations - that is, that “A begat B” means only that B was some descendant, not necessarily the son, of A.
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We can’t be sure about the exact number of years since the creation by using the geneologies but it is definitely on this side of 10,000 and I’m happy to say that everyone at least agrees that evolution is not a viable theory using that small a number. (Thank God we can agree on something about evolution)
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As I see it many generations have passed away,so then Jesus was talking through his hat?
The signs have come up for every generation; it makes me wonder why Jesus would wait until many people (who it is said) would not be saved to end the world after all the hundreds of years since the death of Jesus. Far more people have died in the past 2,000 years than were on the earth at the first century A.D.so waiting so long to end the earth( If one were to believe some people) more people are lost after Jesus death than he came to save!
There have always been wars, rumors of wars, natural disasters, etc. And as I understand it the stars are in a constant state of fall. If our sun, which is the closest star came closer to earth or earth closer to the sun, the earth would burn up.
I would be the first to add that in another 2,000 years people will still be waiting for the end of the world and Jesus to come, just as the Jews are still waiting for a Messiah.
Monavis
Jesus was speaking of the generation which saw the particular sign(s) under discusssion not the generation He was speaking to.
Jesus addressed the end times in detail in Matthew ch 24 and Luke ch 21 and likened it to birth pains which increase in intensity and frequency. Each generation experiences the same type of problems, but they increase to involve the entire world in the end times. The warning of Luke21:34-36 should be heeded by all generations, but especially the last generation, “But take heed to yourselves and be on your guard lest your hearts be overburdened and depressed with self indulgence, drunkenness, and worldly worries and cares, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap or a noose; For it will come upon all who live upon the face of the entire earth. Keep awake then an watch at all times, praying that you may have the full strength and ability and be accounted worthy to escape all these things that will take place, and to stand in the presence of the Son of man.”
Peter summarizes the delayed return of Christ in 2Peter3:9, “The Lord is not slow about what He promises (ie, His return) according to some people’s conception of slowness, but He is longsuffering toward you, not desiring that any should perish, but that all should turn to repentance.” Thus, His delayed return is for the purpose of bringing as many as possible into the kingdom of God.
I don’t think you can consider the forces at work in the world right now and expect things to ever be stable again, conditions are ripe for further violent social eruptions not to mention increased physical calamities. We’re on the Titanic, and the only good news is that Christ promises that He will return with His kingdom following the troublesome times.
Zechariah 12:10 prophesies that the nation of Israel will recognize Christ as their Messiah at the end.