To us, that sounds like a tragedy, but to the Nazis, that was a bonus.
Also pretty much how accurate Allied strategic bombing campaigns were, I’m afraid. Between altitude, wind, ducking flak & close defence aircraft, haphazard navigation… bombs (or paratroopers, for that matter) landed pretty much wherever. Even more so at night, when pilots got all confused about geography on top of all previous factors.
The difference is that the Allies had a metric shitton of bombs and bombers to send in day in, day out ; while Germany had an imperial drachm of V2s to launch at any given time. Which allowed the former the luxury of the more effective “flattening the whole area in a 10 mile radius and expecting the actual target to get statistically ploughed somewhere along the way” strategy.
I don’t know if we are talking about slaves that dig tunnels or slaves that have some skill in assembly and are difficult to replace.
I find mostly that ignorant people ignore me…
Not that I suspect you can be bothered to do the reading or research necessary to have any authority on the subject, however those who can and do will be familiar with ULTRA decrypts relating V-2 Rockets being loaded on U-219 in France before she sailed for Djakarta in August 1944.
Others who will have read the US Navy Intelligence (ONI) Report: “German Technology Transfer to Japan, a survey” dated June 15, 1945 will be interested in it’s report of V-2 production in Manchuria.
I am so glad you are going to ignore my reply because it would be so tiresome having to respond to you Musicat.
Actually most people ignore you due to your blinding ignorance on the topics you discuss. From your absurd insistence that Nazi Germany had nuclear weapons to claims that Japan had a viable nuclear weapons program to your claim that Nagasaki and Hiroshima had no effect on Japans decision to surrender to your claim that it was the Soviet occupation of such Japanese nuclear research facilities that there were in Korea on August 22, 1945 was the real reason for Japan’s surrender when Japan had already broadcast the Imperial Rescript on surrender on August 15th to your reliance on cites from David Irving, a notorious Holocaust denier and known liar who has “deliberately distorted and wilfully mistranslated documents, consciously used discredited testimony and falsified historical statistics” to your repeated references to" A previously classified US Navy intelligence report entitled, “Investigations, Research, Developments and Practical Use of the German Atomic Bomb” dated 19 August 1945, had attached to it the affidavit of a German pilot Hans Zinsser." which when goggled is only found on conspiracy sites such as whale.to, abovetopsecret.com, and something entitled “'Secret Societies Threaten to Take Over America: The Rise of the 4the Reich” by J. Marrs to your reference to a document entitled “Investigations, Research, Developments and Practical Use of the German Atomic Bomb,” issued by COMNAVEU London on 25 January 1946 by Captain R.F. Hickey, USN. The file location in US National Archives is NARA/RG 38, Box 9-13 Entry 98c. “Top Secret Naval Attache Reports 1944-1947” which would be a rather odd temporary career detour for the actual Captain R.F. Hickey, USN to undertake as he had no experience or expertise in such matters, having ended WW2 in the Pacific as the CO of the aircraft carrier USS Hancock and was commander, Carrier Division 5 five years later during the Korean War it’s hardly surprising nobody takes you remotely seriously.
It also shows how both Arthur Clarke and his friend were right in the incident recalled by Reverend Meade. Considering labor in the way most societies and governments do – at the most basic level, people who you generally want to be able to go home when the job was done – the V1 and V2 weren’t worth it. But the Nazis weren’t considering these laborers in that manner* and so the V1 and V2 were worth it from their perspective.
*Understatement of the century.
What are the implications of this? Were they delivered? Were they used? Did they change the outcome of the war?
You give (without citing or linking to sources) official-sounding document names, and then hint darkly that they have some meaning.
Almost no nations in human history were as thoroughly beaten as Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. As far as I can see, your claims so far amount to the equivalent of saying “Despite being completely, utterly crushed in almost every way, these two countries secretly possessed a limited means to fight back, but chose not to use it and let themselves be crushed anyway.”
If you mean something more dramatic than your abstract hints and sotto voce mutterings, please come out and state a thesis. Something more interesting than “I have secret knowledge you don’t,” if you can.
Correction the proper title to the US Intelligence report of transfer of technical aid to Japan was:
German Technical Aid to Japan a Survey,” dated June 15 1945, currently held by Combined Arms Research Library, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, USA (item 3-1695-00561-5885)
I find your musings very amusing… I am simply pointing out that the history of WW2 is contradicted several times by facts which are concealed.
Intelligence files recount matters which one cannot learn from conventional history books. If you lack a sense of wonder about that then you must live a very dull existence.
So if you don’t take me seriously it is amusing that you expend such huge efforts responding to me and telling me how much you are ignoring me. ha-ha
We don’t take David Irving seriously any more, but it took some very serious work to debunk his dangerous, libellous and distorted offerings.
I suspect that to debunk an idiot, one usually does have to go to greater lengths to disprove the lazy and undisciplined musings of the ignorant misinformationist. This is not something which the recipient should be proud of, and such an errant emotion demonstrates a defective assessment of self worth.
Conspiracy theorists are very narcissistic, they wish to feel they are important beyond their merit and usually claim or dream of some sort of ‘specialness’.They do this by invoking knowledge that has little or no basis in fact whatsoever and to which they are privy and yet the rest of us are not. They rather resent it when their dubious claims are thoroughly debunked, at which point they tend to move on to find some other credulous people and hope their previous tormentors do not catch up with them.
Joe Public tends to want his knowledge already pre-digested since digging up raw facts and interpreting them is not an easy or comfortable exercise, and this is the only reason that the conspiracy theorists find any sort of market at all for such nonsense.
Its why the fight against ignorance will never end, because its a fight against human nature, just get your ‘knowledge’ off the shelf pre-made and never use your critical faculties.
I wonder where you fit into all this tazjet ?
I have some difficulty with this. A V2 was a large rocket- 46 feet long. Even dismantled it seems to stretch things for a U boat which was not a cargo vessel to be able to carry them - and then so far. Also, the first operational firings were in September 1944 so were these 12 sent before the rockets were fired for real?
And why send them to Indonesia, which was effectively isolated by that time.
Finally, you mention that this Doctor Yamada travelled with the rockets which arrived in November 1944. He then created a plant which was over run by the Soviets in September 1944. Did he have a time machine?
On a different note, it is interesting that more V2’s were fired at Belgium than at England.
He’s putting in the effort for the rest of us, not you.
I am not ignoring your posts, but I am treating your claims as unsubstantiated. Furthermore, asking us to prove you wrong isn’t going to work. The burden of proof is on the claimant, and the more outlandish the claims, the greater the proof needed. So far you have been remarkably short of reliable proof from multiple sources. So I think we can safely ignore your claims. You are not rewriting history, no matter how sincere you may be.
No, he simply set up shop in a Soviet-occupied base without anyone being the wiser. Ninjas gonna ninj, yo.
What is the source for these scans? Where are they hosted, other than a free photobucket account? Where did you get them?
Musings? They were questions, questions to you. Your unwillingness to address them shows a certian weakness in your argument. Remember, the “I am just posting something interesting that calls into question the standard account” post is the primary sort of post made by gullible conspiracy theorists – you cannot use it to persuade anyone YOU are not a gullible conspiracy theorist.
I ask you again, what are you saying happened with these alleged V-2s, and why, if they mean anything, didn’t they (ultimately) mean anything? Make some kind of argument about the outcome of history if you have one.
The history books I read are closely sourced from intelligence files. For example, John Keegan’s Intelligence in War. Maybe you need to read better history books.
Oh Tragedy…One gets whiplash from tazjet’s critics one moment saying they discount anything he has to say because there is no truth to it and next minute reversing course at Warp 9 speed
This is the source, Combined Arms Research Library, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, USA (item 3-1695-00561-5885).
As a courtesy because the document is not available online I posted for you a reproduction from my photobucket page. If that’s not good enough go to Fort Leavenworth and look it up yourself.
What a shame your esteemed Intelligence books have such a glaring blind spot.
Then you need to do some research on U-219. It was a minelayer with vertical mine shafts into which componenents of 12 dismantled rockets were loaded.
It is recorded in ULTRA traffic from Berlin to Tokyo and noted in the Book Stalin’s Silver by John Bessant.
Why Dutch East Indies. Because if you knew anything abount the Yanagi Plan or the yoyages of 47 U-boats of U-Flotte 33 you would know that they were always unloaded at either Singapore or Batavia and then their cargoes were fowarded on to Japan usually in the cargoes of UIT-24 or UIT-25.
This was to simplify the problems of pilotage and communications between German crews with Japanese naval command.
I don’t see how you can make a V2 that short.