OK, thank you for correcting me. That brings us right back around to whether what Kerry was wearing could correctly be termed a “uniform of the naval service.” I say not, for reasons explained above.
Evidently the faschists have prevented the free expression of ideas in that forum.
Or, the military asked nicely, and had the two servicemen protected from their ill considered partisanship.
Tris
While not military, my hometown’s local JROTC team has been invited to many a local Democratic ceremony to present colors. Can’t imagine why it’d be any more illegal for actual military to participate, and indeed, a Google search shows that National Guard has presented colors at many political events.
If the military presents the flag at a NY Yankees baseball game, is that an official military endorsement of the Yankees?
Well, let’s look at this in a not-so-literal light.
I can see a person wearing a military uniform if he’s active duty while campaigning for office. You’re making a huge leap in equating it to Hitler, but I’ll conced the uniform part of it in this case.
If a person can’t wear a military uniform that he or she has earned and is actively in service, then whouldn’t it be reasonable to declare any mention of military service verboten?
What I mean is, if military uniforms should be banned from politics, shouldn’t military service be banned as well? Why is it fascist to wear a uniform, but acceptable to labor on about actually serving? I again read about W and Reagan not being fit for Office because they didn’t get shot at by a foreign army. It’s a less than subtle jab that Kerry took pictures in Viet Nam. Or Cambodia. Or wherever the hell he was on Christmas.
A former military veteran that rose to lead a nation? I could make a connection there, but I won’t.
Christ, even I’m not that partisan.
I wish you’d just come out and say it duffer.
(Because I didn’t understand your last post in the least)
Hey c’mon, I was just fighting ignorance.
I’m guessing that most of us here agree that the military shouldn’t become the propaganda tool of one party or another. Last month Robert Novack, a right wing reporter with close ties to the regime currently occupying the White House, dropped this firecracker:
Emphasis added. I hope that Mr. Damas was not suggesting that local Republican hacks hoodwink enlisted soldiers into appearing in uniform and breaking regulations. That would be unethical.
http://www.lincolntribune.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3868
Of course free speech can be a wonderful thing…
First things first.
It depends. Some flight suits are uniforms some are not. The flight suits worn military members on duty are most definitely uniforms. However, “flight suit” just defines the purpose of the outfit. Likewise, the military has coveralls that are uniforms but just because something is a coverall it isn’t automatically a uniform.
In any case it’s a moot point. The President is a civilian. He is in charge of the military but not a member of it. The uniform regulations wouldn’t apply. Political backlash aside, civilians can pretty much wear any uniform to any event they please [other than actual impersonation].
Finally, to the OP. If these marines knowingly participated at a political rally/fund raiser, while in uniform they’ve earned some disciplinary action. It doesn’t matter whether they were “just receiving an award” or not. Likewise, military members showing up at an anti-war event in uniform to receive an award would also be in violation.
As an aside to a poster who mentioned that anti-war isn’t necessarily partisan I would like to mention that while this is true, an anti-war event is certainly political which is sufficient to violate the regulations.
Finally, if the two individuals received prior permission from their command then this would let them off the hook. However, I would be highly dubious of the judgement of any commander who would grant such a waiver, knowing the partisan nature of the event. There’s a reason for that regulation; the military should not be used for political points. Regardless of whether it was intended or not, the function was benefiting from association.
Association, innocently intended or not, is the big issue here and why we have this regulation.
Now, to address the OP. No this isn’t how Fascism starts. This is a minor issue in which two marines either had the poor judgement to attend a political event in violation of regulations, were ignorant of the partisan nature of the event and violated the regulations unintentionally, or were allowed to attend by their command. The first will probably resort in minor disciplinary action. The second will probably result, if anything, in a stern talking to and remedial review of the UCMJ. The latter is the one that bugs me a little in that it would seem to show piss poor judgement by the command, unless of course they too were ignorant in regards to the partisan nature of the event; which brings us back to number two… and so on.
In conclusion, this is a non-issue and even if disciplinary action results, we’re not likely nor should we hear about it.
A couple of posters above have alluded to a very good question: What was the actual purpose of the event in question? Was it a political rallying event or was it, essentially, a club dinner whose purpose was to be a venue/occasion to trot out awards for those who’ve helped the club itself or distinguished themselves in some other way for the community?
The Lincoln Day Dinner, described by an attendee of the event, is a kick off to the political season.
Now they are claiming that the Marine showed up in uniform on his own.
I’m going to give the dubious smiley :dubious: to the claim that it was just lucky hapenstance that two marines in their dress blues took it upon themselves to attend. Sgt. Forsyth couldn’t be reached for comment, so we don’t know if the date claim is true. If the two soldiers showed up on thier own to the event, then we can safely assume that they didn’t go through the PAO, and they’ll be looking at some trouble.
Interestingly enough, the copy and save functions are disabled, too. I think someone decidedly did NOT have permission to be there, and someone else is hoping to make sure nothing comes of it.
Heck, Frank Sinatra and his boss went the Republican National Convention in uniform.
They couldn’t stop Lawrence Harvey from plugging Jessica Fletcher, though. Write that murder, bitch!
So this is how fascism starts? I can see the soldiers are in trouble but I would not be too concerned about this.
The real baby steps to fascism happens when the party in power attempts to pass laws to make a possible illegal move by the ruler legal after the fact. Even better, do not investigate to check if the wire tapping was illegal .
Bush has less than 2 years left in office. Frankly I’m ashamed we aren’t goose-stepping after over 6 years of his rule. What a disgrace. How ineffectual can a NAZI be? I mean, fuck! More than 75% of the term is over and we still don’t have brownshirts looting and burning minority businesses! And the lack of gas chambers for anyone he personally and arbitrarily wants to fill make me wonder why I ever sent those donation checks.
A ridiculous expectation for a leader? Apparently not so. He could do it if he wanted to. And if he was as evil as some say, he would have.
That or he is evil but powerless. I can never tell around here.
Haven’t read it, but now I’ll look for it. The movie version will have to wait. I always try to read the novel first.
Based on the reviews, this sounds like like something along the lines of two of Stephen King’s novels blended together. Rage and Apt Pupil. Is that pretty close? Or is it different enough to really give it a shot?
[Scott Evil]
A Nazi is not the same as fascist you numbnuts.
[/Scott Evil]
This time it’s safe to watch the movie first. The book was a novelization of the movie.
Yeah, but the book is easier to find.
Yeah, it probably is. I think I read the book first. And then we watched the movie in my history class when we were studying McCarthyism.