I am attempting to help my step son locate a car to purchase. I have a reliable mechanic lined up for inspections and have the budget set (he has about $5000-$6000 as a target). I think I’m a decent negotiator and have done research on what car prices should be.
Now, we go out, armed with knowledge, and I’m completely blown away at the prices being asked. I’m not talking slightly overpriced here but, as a norm, 50%, 60%, 100% and even sometimes approaching 200% overpriced! Now, I thought my information might be flawed (and it might) but using common sense seems to indicate that these things are overpriced.
I was getting so frustrated that, as an experiment, I picked a car out on a dealers lot. It was priced at $5995. My research indicated that a fairer price was about $2400. Over time, I managed to talk him down to 2900 at which I stopped since my step son didn't really want that particular car anyway. It, however, confirmed my suspicion about how overpriced these things are. I experimented on two private parties in this way and, since they weren't professionals used to dealing, seemed to take things so personally/whine so much that I gave up. My negotiating tactic is probably not what they are used to because I refuse to 'meet in the middle' -- I put forth what I think is a fair offer and stick to it while they want to try to move down from the inflated price (which is why it is probably inflated anyway - so they have room to 'move'). For private parties, it is very irritating because why take the time driving/finding the house when the guy could just say 'Nope', I want (inflated) and they don’t seem too keen on negotiating over the phone before I’ve even seen the car but this is what I do anyway to save time.
My question is that am I condemmed to have to deal with this price haggling, wailing, and gnashing of teeth? Is there ANYWHERE out there where the used cars are priced fairly or close to fairly? I would any appreciate observations from people experienced in doing this that would help save on the time and wear and tear this seems to be going to take! I really don’t mind the negotiation process, just have other things I would rather do with my time.
I consider my husband to be the best used car buyer on the planet. The last one we bought was a 92 Ford Ranger w/air, stick shift, cassette, cloth seats, 4-cyl, 19K miles (it was 4 years old). We paid $8000, and it was worth every penny. I personally think you’re shooting too low, price-wise. We bought this through a dealer (and sold our old truck privately). Here’s how we do it: Write down exactly what you must have and exactly how much you will pay on a business card. Hand it to the guy at the car joint, and tell him not to call you until he has what you’re looking for. It takes a while sometimes, but its the only way to go!
There are large used car auctions (Manheim etc) held for dealers and wholesalers. If you have a friend in the business see if they will take you to one of these. You can by used cars for very reasonable prices at these auctions but you need to know a fair amount about cars in order to make intelligent bids.
Try edmunds.com there, you can input the zip code to find out what a car is selling for in your
area. Also, carfax.com where you can get a great report on the specific car you want if you
get the VIN nbr from it. Also, ebay.com has car auctions online, great to see what something is worth.
As for people asking too much, you don’t have to buy from them.
Blinking Duck:
Where are you getting your price information?
Also, many of the price guides can be inaccurate as to what cars are truly selling for. If the car is very popular-such as a Honda- it will almost always sell for top dollar.
Dealers do expect people to negotiate. But, most individuals do price their cars at close to what they expect to sell it for.
For example, if I were advertising my Honda for $6000, and someone offered me $3000, I would laugh and walk away.
If you want to beat up someone on price, you are probably better off dealing with a dealer.
I had a friend in the used car biz.He went to several auctions,and I tagged along to watch.
At auctions you can inspect the cars (to a degree) sometime before the auctions-times usually posted.
You will NOT be able to drive these cars,merely pop the hood and look for the obvious leaks.etc.All cars sold as is no warranty.Sometimes a seller will have a reserve-that is,if the car doesn’t sell for at least some specified price he doesn’t sell just paying a auction fee.If you run across one of those,find the seller,tell him you’re interested but you must drive,have your mechanic check it before you’ll buy.Reserves are usually the best price you’ll find anywhere.
For any dollar amount used pick on the not so hot (in terms of fashion) models.You can find a list of these somewhere or google for the brands in the top 10 or so stolen models.You’l never find cheap used prices on these unless there’s something not up to snuff in that car.
If somebody offers a lowball on a BMW for a song-just don’t whistle.
Another thing to keep in mind when buying used is potential repair costs.Foreign brands cost more for everything other than tires.
And what the other post mentioned if you know your brand (s)/model( s) that you want go to as many of that brands dealers as you can and give them your number.Dealers hate to have used sitting on their lots for more than a month or more,their turnover in tradeins are too high.They usually wholesale the slow resellers and almost never go as far as rebuilding parts in autos-unless possibly,it’s a fast selling brand.
Probably. In general, however, you’re probably going to have better luck in terms of less bullshit with a private-party sale than with a dealer. Dealers create bullshit for a living. A private person selling a car is usually just interested in selling the car, probably to get enough cahs for a down payment on a new (or newer) one, plus they don’t have to pay for the overhead of the dealership, etc.
The best place to buy a used car is from a trusted friend who is selling a decent car to buy a new one. If it had any major headaches, you’d probably have heard about them already.
Barring that, it’s the end of the schoolyear right now: the best deal I ever got was from a university bulletin board. I bought a car from a guy who had just finished a Ph.D. and was moving back to Turkey, so obviously wasn’t about to schlep his Toyota Tercel. It was a bit of a beater, but had 80K miles, was in reasonable shape, and I got it for $1700. I’d seen comparable cars at dealerships that were going for more than double that.
OK, maybe not everyone is moving back to Turkey, but you’d be surprised how many recent grads don’t want to drive their cars, say, 3,000 miles home to California, or (if it’s a good school) have well-paying jobs lined up and are about to buy new cars. PLus they’re not typically hard-nosed negotiators.
Echokitty, the budget is his budget as he is 18 years old. It sucks, but I remember going through all that
Astro, I’ve heard about these actions but would feel uncomfortable having him buy a car without an inspection first. I do not feel comfortable relying on my knowledge especially with all the new techy stuff on these cars.
Simple Homer, I think you are right about private party vs dealer negotiation. However, I think the private partys , around here anyway, go to the car lots to price their car. It really is to the point where I’m thinking about giving up on private party sales. Just this weekend, we looked at a 1996 Cavalier with 56,000 miles on it (not bad) but he wanted $6000! I had to point out that we could go to a car lot and pick up a new Cavalier for under $11,000. His response was a blank stare and a ‘so what’ attitude. This is what I mean by the ‘if you just think about it, they are overpriced’ comment. I get my info from several web sites like KBB (which I hear has inflated prices). I also have a friend that works in auto leasing at a bank and has info on what used cars are worth like residuals and such.
Eva Luna, I tried the friends/family route and only one person is selling and she wants way more than stepson has to spend. Otherwise I agree. We did look at a graduating college students Nissian Sentra that had 90,000 miles, was a 1995 and wanted $3000. Overpriced but we looked at it. It looked like it had been in a major accident and welded back together in the middle. I offered him $500 on the spot. He laughed. This was 3 months ago and I notice it is still for sale, this time for $2700. :rolleyes
I’m going to keep trying. I don’t hate doing this but it’s much easier to get them to a FAIR price when they are close to fair to begin with, not inflated over double. :rolleyes:
“Nissian Sentra that had 90,000 miles, was a 1995 and wanted $3000… overpriced but we looked at it…”
Now as you noted it was in terrible condition but just on paper this is not overpriced. the “Blue book” value of my 1991 Nissan Stanza is $4500 (good condition, no visible rust, only 65K miles). I looked up the blue book on 95 Sentra in average condition with no extras and its $3300. 90K miles isn’t that much on a Nissan or Honda (assuming its been taken care of in a reasonable fashion).
If you have only ever bought used domestic cars you might be surprised as what used Japanese cars will go for… because it’s widely perceived that they last longer.
You keep referring to your “research.” Exactly what and whgere are you researching? Are you just finding the lowest price you can somewhere on the internet and then calling that a “fair price”? Some research sources are better than others.
Necros, there are several websites that offer guidance for pricing used cars. I look at these and pick the price where the cluster together as ‘fair’. Also, I have a friend who works with a bank for auto leasing and he has access to residuals and such which when combined with the websites gives an idea of what is fair.
Keep in mind, Necros, that all of the cars I’ve looked at over a month ago are still for sale showing that I’m not the only one thinking they are overpriced. Also, the one time I really tried to bargain I got the price from $5995 to $2900 before I stopped. A dealer bargaining down this far shows that the original price was way overpriced since I have to assume a profit would still be made at $2900.
I want to know where to go so that I don’t have to spend so much time bringing the price down. Do you know how much effort it takes to bring a price from $5995 to $2900 and still keep negotiating? It takes WEEKS!
Obviously, if you can’t find a car for the price you think is fair, your conception of fair is wrong. The market determines what the fair price is, the sites that price cars are trying to follow the market.
“but he wanted $6000! I had to point out that we could go to a car lot and pick up a new Cavalier for under $11,000… This is what I mean by the ‘if you just think about it, they are overpriced’ comment.”
Then go pick up a new Cavlier for under 11K. They are completely different non-fungible items. You may have some conception of the depreciation curve, but it clearly doesn’t mesh with the reality of your local market. What you meant was, if BlinkingDuck thinks about it, it’s overpriced. Clearly every single seller in your market disagrees with how you think.
One small tip: At autotrader.com, you not only can see many listings, but at the top of the search results page, it will tell you what cars are listing for (min/max/average) in that specific search area. That might help you.
Taking weeks to net $3000 dollars seems like you are doing pretty well.
IMHO, you should continue to meet with private sellers. Continue to state your firm price upfront, informing them that it is final. I like the business card trick with dealers another poster mentioned. If you continue doing this, and still can’t get anywhere, raise your asking price. That’s the market at work.
Muttrox, I fully agree with you on the market and I also agree with you on the $3000 for 10 days of negotiating is very much worth it.
However, I cannot see this as a valid market if dealers are willing to go down so much on cars and these cars are not selling. I keep track of every car interested in and negotiated on so that I call back in a couple weeks to see if they are more willing to negotiate. I haven’t done this with a huge number of cars, (looking…15 cars so far) and none of them have sold. Some I looked at 3 months ago! I think it is ‘them’ that is not in reality.
My gut feeling of what is happening is that mid-range priced cars, say $8000-$15000 are probably reasonably priced, though I haven’t looked but something is goofy about the low end of the market. People want too much and they aren’t selling.
I’ve always leaned toward the new Cavalier myself. They had the $2002 cash back and I have about $2500 in GM dollars saved up which I would just give to him (am I a nice step dad or what?) which means a decent Cavalier, after tax and licence of below $9000. However, there are two obstacles. One is that he would need full coverage on the car costing him over $300 a month! The second is that mother and father are adament that an 18 year old should not have a new car. He has come to me for advice/help but I am reluctant to go against mom and dad’s wishes. So, I’m helping him in negotiation instead.
I think you and the dealers are acting exactly symmetric. You want their car, you know what is a fair price for it, and won’t go any higher. They want you to buy their car, they know what is a fair price for it, and won’t go any lower.
The only sure way that I know of to buy used cars is not to negotiate. You have to go in knowing how much you will pay for a vehicle. You make that offer and leave it up to the salesman to take it or leave it. Negotiation always seems to favor the salesman.
The only sure way that I know of to buy used cars is not to negotiate. You have to go in knowing how much you will pay for a vehicle. You make that offer and leave it up to the salesman to take it or leave it. Negotiation always seems to favor the salesman.
Yes! This is exactly what I do. I think it is a good method.
Yup, it is a blinking match but, screen name withstanding, I won’t!
